Freethought & Rationalism Archive

crocodile deathroll · 06-16-2002, 06:14 PM

Some call him the ultimate miracle worker of the 20th century. "Some" perhaps thousands of
loyal followers who gathered outside the Vatican for his inauguration and millions of loyal
followers who watched the whole spectacle live on TV

Others just dismiss him a self mutilating attention seeker taking advantage
of the gullible.

It is the recently canonized <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/16/vatican.saint/index.html" target="_blank">"St" Padre Pio </a>

You what I think. I think the latter. What are your thoughts

[Edited to correct invalid link]

[ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]

NOGO · 06-16-2002, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Others just dismiss him a self mutilating attention seeker taking advantage
of the gullible.

I don't know much about Padre Pio however self mutilation would bring about frequent infections. What this means is that if it was a fraud someone else, perhaps his doctor, must have been part of it.

The Pope of the time order him confined. Perhaps he taught it was a fraud as well.

gilly54 · 06-16-2002, 08:58 PM

If stigmata are truly inflicted by God/Jesus, the wounds in the hands would be through the wrists, not the palms, indicating that stigmata(if real) are a psychosomatic thing.

At least the perpetrators of the Shroud got the wounds correct.

Sephiroth · 06-16-2002, 10:55 PM

I don't see why Stigmata is seen as a good thing in the first place. If Jebus is really going around making people hurt like he did then that makes him sound like a real fucking bastard to me.

Proxima Centauri · 06-17-2002, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NOGO:


However self mutilation would bring about frequent infections. What this means is that if it was a fraud someone else, perhaps his doctor, must have been part of it.

The Pope of the time order him confined. Perhaps he taught it was a fraud as well.

If someone is making real wounds and giving the impression there is a lot of bleeding, putting animal blood, tomatoe juice etc into the wounds, infections will be inevitable.

crocodile deathroll · 06-17-2002, 04:23 PM

The later images I saw of Padre Pio's stigmata were ugly scabby wounds, hardly consistant with an injury caused by a large Roman nail.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sephiroth:
I don't see why Stigmata is seen as a good thing in the first place. If Jebus is really going around making people hurt like he did then that makes him sound like a real fucking bastard to me.

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]

One of the last sane · 06-17-2002, 06:30 PM

What gilly54 said. Stigmata in the hands are a dead giveaway. The Romans knew better than to crucify people with nails through the hands, the nails would tear out between the metacarpals.

Bree · 06-17-2002, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by One of last of the sane:
What gilly54 said. Stigmata in the hands are a dead giveaway. The Romans knew better than to crucify people with nails through the hands, the nails would tear out between the metacarpals.

I know - if God is causing these wounds, then don't you think He'd take the time to make sure they were made correctly?!

Oresta · 06-18-2002, 06:37 AM

CNN link:

Quote:

Padre Pio was extremely popular among parishioners, attracting an international reputation, but doubted for most of his life by the Vatican with some insisting his stigmata wounds were a fraud.

But in troubled times for the Church Pio fits into Pope John Paul's quest for role models of unstinting belief and obedience, having lived a life of piety and refusing to rise to criticism of him.

Pope: Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Look over here at the popular, nice new saint I'm giving to you! First with stigmata in centuries! Bound to be very effective at intercessions!

simian · 06-18-2002, 07:07 AM

I got into a discussion with a rabid catholic on this issue about a year or two ago, on Padre Pio. Being raised Catholic (recovered/recovering now), I knew the church understood that the nails would be through the wrists. Pio's were on the hands. I pointed out that if God was putting the wounds on Pio, surely he would be capable of putting them in the correct place. She felt that God put them where the person expected them. In short, very circular reasoning was used - they were put there by God, God put them in the wrong place because that is what the person expected, showing that God did it and is concerned about what people feel.

Danmed if you do, danmed if you don't.

Simian

06-16-2002, 06:14 PM	#1
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	The Vatican and the Stigmata Some call him the ultimate miracle worker of the 20th century. "Some" perhaps thousands of loyal followers who gathered outside the Vatican for his inauguration and millions of loyal followers who watched the whole spectacle live on TV Others just dismiss him a self mutilating attention seeker taking advantage of the gullible. It is the recently canonized <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/16/vatican.saint/index.html" target="_blank">"St" Padre Pio </a> You what I think. I think the latter. What are your thoughts [Edited to correct invalid link] [ June 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>

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06-16-2002, 08:58 PM	#3
gilly54 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New Almaden, California Posts: 917	If stigmata are truly inflicted by God/Jesus, the wounds in the hands would be through the wrists, not the palms, indicating that stigmata(if real) are a psychosomatic thing. At least the perpetrators of the Shroud got the wounds correct.

06-16-2002, 10:55 PM	#4
Sephiroth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 625	I don't see why Stigmata is seen as a good thing in the first place. If Jebus is really going around making people hurt like he did then that makes him sound like a real fucking bastard to me.

06-17-2002, 06:30 PM	#7
One of the last sane Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: hereabouts Posts: 734	What gilly54 said. Stigmata in the hands are a dead giveaway. The Romans knew better than to crucify people with nails through the hands, the nails would tear out between the metacarpals.

06-18-2002, 07:07 AM	#10
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	I got into a discussion with a rabid catholic on this issue about a year or two ago, on Padre Pio. Being raised Catholic (recovered/recovering now), I knew the church understood that the nails would be through the wrists. Pio's were on the hands. I pointed out that if God was putting the wounds on Pio, surely he would be capable of putting them in the correct place. She felt that God put them where the person expected them. In short, very circular reasoning was used - they were put there by God, God put them in the wrong place because that is what the person expected, showing that God did it and is concerned about what people feel. Danmed if you do, danmed if you don't. Simian

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