Freethought & Rationalism Archive

John Page · 03-02-2002, 02:46 PM

With regard to Madame Bovary and her behavior, she may not agree with you on that point!

Why do people get so touchy about their beliefs? As an atheiest, I generally don't get respect for disbelief.

I respect people's right to believe whatever and I'll say that. Whether I respect their beliefs is another issue. I do respect other peoples values, though, irrespective of religious dogma.

99Percent · 03-02-2002, 04:51 PM

I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (IPU). Are you going to respect that belief?

Beliefs have to justified in order for them to be sincerely respected. Otherwise you are just being a hypocrit.

Before I used to respect theist's beliefs. Now I can understand why they believe, but I don't respect those beliefs anymore, specially if they are supposedly intelligent people.

Jane Bovary · 03-03-2002, 01:31 PM

I may just be misreading you here, but are you saying that ethical questions should not be open to critical scrutiny?

Uh no! What I meant here Brian, but didn't explain very well, was that people often regard a belief in God as intrinsically good, something felt rather than thought out, and therefore not to be "trodden on" by intellectual scrutiny.

But of course, believing in god/or not, is neither good or bad in the moral sense...my point is not that ethical questions are beyond criticism, but that "belief" shouldn't be regarded as an ethical question in the first place, should it?

Jane Bovary · 03-03-2002, 01:34 PM

With regard to Madame Bovary and her behavior, she may not agree with you on that point!

Hey...are you casting aspersions on my behaviour!

John Page · 03-03-2002, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jane Bovary:
With regard to Madame Bovary and her behavior, she may not agree with you on that point!

Hey...are you casting aspersions on my behaviour!

Absolutely not. Sorry for the identity confusion!

southernhybrid · 03-03-2002, 04:17 PM

I don't repect many people's beliefs but I do respect their right to belief as they do as long as it doesn't interfer with my right to believe as I do. Here is where the conflict often begins.

Quote:

IMO, its also rude to shut someone off by refusing to discuss your beliefs with them . But of course, there can be no coercion for the same.

- Sivakami.

I'm not sure how you mean that. I don't feel that it's rude to refuse to discuss my beliefs. I think it's rude if someone else feels they are entitled to discuss my beliefs with me. Most of the time my beliefs are personal and private. I choose when I want to discuss them with someone. I am never under any obligation to discuss my personal beliefs. By the same token, others have no obligation to reveal or discuss their beliefs with me. Perhaps I have missed your point. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Ms. Siv · 03-04-2002, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by southernhybrid:
I don't repect many people's beliefs but I do respect their right to belief as they do as long as it doesn't interfer with my right to believe as I do. Here is where the conflict often begins.

And, IMO thats what I said. Respecting other's beliefs does not mean I dont reveal mine because it may offend them or that I dont criticise their beliefs in a discussion.

Quote:

I'm not sure how you mean that. I don't feel that it's rude to refuse to discuss my beliefs. I think it's rude if someone else feels they are entitled to discuss my beliefs with me. Most of the time my beliefs are personal and private. I choose when I want to discuss them with someone. I am never under any obligation to discuss my personal beliefs. By the same token, others have no obligation to reveal or discuss their beliefs with me. Perhaps I have missed your point.

You're not under any obligations to discuss religious beliefs but neither are you obliged to discuss your political or sports beliefs. If someone (a friend) asked you why you prefer Republicans to Democrats, would you react the same way as if they asked you why you're a theist/atheist ?
If yes, then I'm with you. If no, then I'm not.

- Sivakami.

emotional · 03-04-2002, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sivakami S:
What exactly do we mean by "respect" anyway ?

Whether everyone has the right to hold their beliefs ? Sure (who's going to stop them ?!).

So long as they don't make real-world claims for their beliefs. Only materialism can be allowed to make real-world claims.

Quote:

However, once you enter into a discussion with someone having opposing/contradicting beliefs (or no beliefs), you have to be ready to face skeptical scrutiny of your beliefs. Attacking someone's beliefs is not akin to attacking the person.

Sivakami, I don't respect any sovereign-God belief. You see, if there is a God ruling over creatures and their fates, then this God either permitted or caused (practically the same thing) the Holocaust of 6 million Jews, including the family of my grandparents, in 1939-45. Effectively, this means this God is Hitler's accomplice and supervisor in crime. I have absolutely no obligation to respect Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, Baha'ism or any other religion which worships Hitler's accomplice, never mind how "benign" it may be.

God is the Frankenstein Monster that the Jewish people created, and he's been using the Jewish people as his punching bag for millennia. If I had my way I'd wipe out all theistic beliefs from the face of the earth. Any worship of God is hurtful to my feelings, and a Jew who worships God is a grievous criminal.

southernhybrid · 03-04-2002, 01:30 PM

[QUOTE]If someone (a friend) asked you why you prefer Republicans to Democrats, would you react the same way as if they asked you why you're a theist/atheist ?
If yes, then I'm with you. If no, then I'm not.

Yes.

Ms. Siv · 03-04-2002, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by southernhybrid:
If someone (a friend) asked you why you prefer Republicans to Democrats, would you react the same way as if they asked you why you're a theist/atheist ?
If yes, then I'm with you. If no, then I'm not.
--------------------

Yes.[/QB]

Good. Then I'm with you

But you should know that if what you say is true, then you're an exception.

- Sivakami.

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03-02-2002, 02:46 PM	#21
John Page Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: US Posts: 5,495	With regard to Madame Bovary and her behavior, she may not agree with you on that point! Why do people get so touchy about their beliefs? As an atheiest, I generally don't get respect for disbelief. I respect people's right to believe whatever and I'll say that. Whether I respect their beliefs is another issue. I do respect other peoples values, though, irrespective of religious dogma.

03-02-2002, 04:51 PM	#22
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (IPU). Are you going to respect that belief? Beliefs have to justified in order for them to be sincerely respected. Otherwise you are just being a hypocrit. Before I used to respect theist's beliefs. Now I can understand why they believe, but I don't respect those beliefs anymore, specially if they are supposedly intelligent people.

03-03-2002, 01:31 PM	#23
Jane Bovary Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Fatal Shore Posts: 900	I may just be misreading you here, but are you saying that ethical questions should not be open to critical scrutiny? Uh no! What I meant here Brian, but didn't explain very well, was that people often regard a belief in God as intrinsically good, something felt rather than thought out, and therefore not to be "trodden on" by intellectual scrutiny. But of course, believing in god/or not, is neither good or bad in the moral sense...my point is not that ethical questions are beyond criticism, but that "belief" shouldn't be regarded as an ethical question in the first place, should it?

03-03-2002, 01:34 PM	#24
Jane Bovary Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: The Fatal Shore Posts: 900	With regard to Madame Bovary and her behavior, she may not agree with you on that point! Hey...are you casting aspersions on my behaviour!

03-04-2002, 01:30 PM	#29
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	[QUOTE]If someone (a friend) asked you why you prefer Republicans to Democrats, would you react the same way as if they asked you why you're a theist/atheist ? If yes, then I'm with you. If no, then I'm not. Yes.

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