Lord Asriel

Wasn’t sure which forum this was best suited to, but here goes.

A friend of mine is having a difficult time of it at the moment. In the past she has suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts. She started taking medication and training to be a teacher and things improved. Recently, however, there has been something of a backslide. Difficulties in paying for rented accommodation meant that she had to move back with her strictly Catholic parents.
She grew up not realizing there was any alternative to Catholicism, and soon left the church after getting to University and discovering to her amazement that not everyone went to Mass on Sunday. She has since maintained a vague belief in “something else out there”, which has gradually become a kind of Spiritualist belief since the death of her much-loved Grandfather last year. She once asked me to go with her to a Spiritualist Church for a “clairvoyant evening”. I did, and afterwards explained to her how cold reading works, which seemed to put her off wanting to go again.

That’s the background. Now the suicidal thoughts are coming back again. She’s working very hard for very little money at a local College of Further Education. She’s suffering from various ailments, aches, pains and fatigue, which I believe may be stress related, and which she always catastrophizes into advanced cancer, schizophrenia or something equally dramatic and devastating. Her mother constantly (although unconsciously) guilt-trips and emotionally blackmails her, and her father simply maintains that “this is what happens if you don’t go to Mass”. She’s shy and awkward socially and has very few friends. So she’s been leaning on me quite a lot over the last few months, and try as I might, I can’t always help her out.

So here’s the bit that prompted me to write the post. She told me the other day that she wanted to go to an Anglican service, and wanted to know what I thought (she’s well aware of my atheistic stance). I could see that she really wanted to go, and needed something to focus her life. I told her it was probably a good idea.

So I, a strong atheist, am encouraging a very good friend of mine to go to church. Am I being hypocritical? Could it do more harm than good? Is religion invariably a bad thing? Thoughts much appreciated.

HelenM

My experience of Anglican services is that they are usually relatively low-key and at the less coercive end of the spectrum of what could happen at a church. So I doubt she's contemplating something that could be dangerous to her, unless this is a rather unusual Anglican church.

And I tend to share your approach which isn't so much to tell someone to do something specific, but to encourage them to do what they want to do, unless it seems like it is likely to harm them.

If someone told me they really didn't want to go to church, I might ask them why, if it was ok to ask. I wouldn't try to push them into going even though I'm a Christian. So - if you're a hypocrite maybe I am too . But I think it's more that we believe in the freedom of other people to do what they want to do, as long as it's not likely to cause serious harm to them or others.

For what it's worth, she probably appreciates that she could tell you and not have you try to dissuade her just because it's not something you would do. I'm disappointed at how many people seem unable to think beyond "I wouldn't do it". It makes them very frustating to talk to! (imo )

take care
Helen

Carlos

Hmm... I wouldn't say you're being hypocritical, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone else made that argument. You are not contradicting your beliefs as a strong atheist ("god does not exist") - all you did was concede that attending a service may be beneficial to her.

Some will claim that in doing so you are endorsing religion and that you really do believe in god. If this were the case (doesn't sound like it), then you would rightly be called a called a hypocrite. Others may claim that any positive view of religion is incompatible with being an atheist; I would disagree. Remember how atheism is defined - it deals only with what you believe with respect to the existence of god. If you claim that religion is bad and harmful to people (something you have not done in your post, but would not be uncommon for an atheist), then encouraging her to go to church could be seen as hypocritical.

I think most of us recognize that there are both good and bad parts to organized religion. While it may have been difficult for you to encourage her to attend a service, and it may trouble you internally, you did so in trying to help your friend and there is no shame in that.

Godless Sodomite

You have a friend in desperate need of some help. If you're to help her it's probably best to take your cues for advice from her. From what you've told us about her, your advice to her doesn't sound hypocritical at all. In fact, were I you, I would have offered the same advice. Gods are fake, but your friend is real. If she still has some vague religious sense carried over from her childhood and wants to explore other religions there's no reason not to support her. Hopefully, should she find peace of mind, she won't end up crediting her imaginary friend in stead of the real people in her life who supported her when she most needed it.

-Jerry

Jagged

I'm an atheist, but I don't agree with the view that anything associated with religion is ipso facto bad, or churches will always be an unhealthy influence.

Check out <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=55&t=000707" target="_blank">this thread</a> for more about the Episcopalian/Anglican denomination and others' experience with it.

The part about catastrophizing sounds like she might have an anxiety disorder. The other stuff makes me think she needs more psychological help than she's getting.

My mom also does this. It's terrible. I know some resources (books, websites) for dealing with this kind of thing, if you're interested.

Is she in therapy now? Maybe she could find a support group as well--that would help with the isolation.

This kind of thing is no joke, as you obviously have recognized.

Lord Asriel

Thanks for the replies so far (esp JLP; I'll get back to you). I'm probably not going to be online for a little while, and I just wanted to say that although she is having suicidal thoughts, I don't think there's any danger of her going through with it at the moment.

Lord A

magiksam

Hey

Hate to butt in but if someone were to confess to me they were considering suicidal tendencies I would *strongly* pressure them towards at least going to a fam physician (they deal with a lot of cases of rather common brain chemistry related mental disorders) for some form of intercession.

Although her difficulties may stem from external issues with her family she is exhibiting some classic symptoms of depression that become physiological. Medications can and do help. The fact that you are(or are one of) her most trusted friends and she is confiding in you puts you in a quandary of how to help her without creating distance. When someone tells you that they are thinking about suicide huge RED flags should go up. Although she may never do it is a cry for help that def. needs attention.

The issue may be difficult because many traditional (religious or otherwise) people have problems with mental disorders and blame the individual suffering from them. It appears that her family may do the same blaming her for her problems and wondering why she cant feel better. It’s not really for her to do. It’s like blaming someone for having type I diabetes.

Anyway that my opinion for what its worth

Magiksam