Geoff Hudson

I thought you might be interested in a question I posed to a different group. My assumption is that references to Damascus in the NT are spurious, i.e. that Paul {imo James} never did go to Damascus in Syria, but he did go to Rome.

Message 1 in thread
From: Geoff Hudson (geoff.hudson@ntlworld.com)
Subject: A Straight Street in Rome?

Was there a street called Straight in first century Rome?

Message 2 in thread
From: Edwin Menes (horace65@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: A Straight Street in Rome?


There was such a street, but its ancient name is unknown AFAIK. On maps of ancient Rome, it is usually labeled Via Lata--not 'straight' but 'wide', but I don't know how old the name is. It intersects at a right angle with the Via Flaminia outside the Servian Walls and leads to the Tiber. Because of the topography, Roman streets were rarely straight for any length until they exited the walls and became roads. The Via Lata, however, crossed the southern end of the Campus Martius, which was flat and so could accommodate a straight street. By the first century B.C., the Servian Walls were more a curiosity than a fortification, and there was both residential and monumental building outside them.

I don't have a map of modern Rome handy, but the same street is still there--well, a meter or two higher than the ancient street but following the same course. I don't remember the name(s) of the current street but it intersects with the Corso just north of Piazza Venezia, and just after you turn onto it, you encounter the church of S. Maria in Via Lata.

Psycho Economist

Well, I just tried to find it on Microsoft's Terraserver, but it only covers North America... but Google Image on "via lata" returned two decent maps of rome but the street in question doesn't appear on them (may be different parts of the city, or too wide-scaled).

Amos

It is quite normal for people who persecute Christ and Christians and get knocked of their high horse to land on their way to Rome. The point here is that illumination by the celestial light is always the cause of such a conversion and if this is true the road to Damascus is identical to the road to Rome and only a change of heart (mind) is required to see this.

Geoff Hudson

Try this:

http://www.jmiller.demon.co.uk/

Geoff

Psycho Economist

*drools*

I've always liked maps and stuff.

Amos

Oh, and you know what? The road to Rome is strait and flat because Catholic baptism has made it so!!!!!

Geoff Hudson

Its interesting that you should say that Amos, because, I think that was close to the rival message of the high priests of Jerusalem in opposition to James' message of the Spirit. Paul (imo James) said that he was glad that he hadn't baptised anyone, implying that there was a group that did baptise, presumably for the remission of sins. The priests regarded baptism as a means of purification without the need for animal sacrifices.

That was all before the Jesus literalists came on the scene. They being priestly types, relegated the Spirit to a kind of second blessing, providing only spiritual gifts, but retained their baptism.

Geoff

Amos

Sorry Geoff, I am not much of a student and I don't know who the hight priests of Jerusalem were nor do I know James' message of the spirit (I can only guess).

In my view baptism into the [proper] fold leads to the rebirth of John (water is subconscious mind) and that is how the conscious mind is prepared for the rebirth of son of man unto the believer (spirit is the conscious mind). So if the effect of baptism is equal to animal sacrifices they would both passify persistent (intuit) determinations within the netherword of the soul. Very interesting and "involutional melancholia" is an archaic name for this sentiment.

So according to Paul baptism should not be for the remission of sins but for the accumilation of sins that eventually leads to the condition I called "involutional melancholia" (rebirth of John just prior to the rebirth of Christ).