openeyes

Thanks! I didn't realize they were based here. I am really supposed to be sweeping out the garage today. Don't know if I'll have time, but maybe. . .

openeyes

Well, I went to the debate, and it was painful.

The first thing the moderator did was to have everyone stand who considered themselves a Christian believer. I didn't see anyone in my area that stayed seated besides me. Then those who believed in creationism to remain standing. Very few sitters. Those who believe in "young earth" creationism (or whatever it's called). Almost all remain standing!!!

This was in a hugh church, someone said 2000-3000 people.

This was my first exposure to Hovind. I kept thinking snake oil salesman with his rapid "don't really think about what I'm saying" delivery. They loved him, laughed at his lame jokes and nodded at all his assertions. He had to have mentioned his tapes ten times. It was so depressing.

Shermer presented himself well, but failed to make much of a dent I'm sure. The guy representing "old earth" creationism was not a great presenter, though he made a few good points I thought. The moderator couldn't help but make some points for the theist side if he felt a need. Yeah, sure, it's a fair debate.

Fortunately I did run into two atheists I know. The second one likes to debate theists (a theist friend and wife had invited him) and afterward the four of us went out for coffee. Hovind has the theist couple convinced there's no evidence for evolution, that evolution is a religion too and that his seven day creation explanation is reasonable. The other atheist and I tried to give them a good argument, but they weren't buying. They also think since we had the chance to accept "God" (the true Christian one) and we rejected him, it's hell for us (if we were too young or lived someplace where we wouldn't have exposure to the true god. we'd get a pass on hell.) When I said, don't worry about us, they said they couldn't help wanting us to know god forever. She teaches second grade, so she must have a degree from someplace.

Things are worse than I thought. .