Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Late_Cretaceous · 05-04-2002, 03:05 PM

I am sure by now you all have heard of the cyborg rats.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1961000/1961798.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1961000/1961798.stm</a>

Today its rodents, tomorrow Locutus

RealityCheck · 05-04-2002, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Dr Talwar acknowledged there might be ethical objections to such ideas, even if they could save human lives.

snip

Quote:

"Nonetheless, the idea is sort of creepy. I do not know what the answer is to that."

I thought this was a little strange at first, but this is essentially the same as riding a horse. I don't see any reasonable objection except possibly the implant itself.

Bill · 05-05-2002, 08:03 AM

Ooooohh. Don't let <a href="http://www.peta.org/" target="_blank">PETA</a> hear about this one!

Frankly, this is ethically scary. On the one hand, I can see that rats are "pests" and are subject to summary execution whenver they are found in my home. On the other hand, they are also fellow mammals, and recent genetic research has proven that they aren't all that different from any other mammals, including (of course) humans.

I don't know what I ought to think about this sort of thing.

== Bill

Corona688 · 05-05-2002, 09:38 AM

*shrug*
I don't see what the problem is, really... this isn't some form of hyper-remote-control where we take over the rat and force it to do our bidding, it is a new and highly effective form of training. Do the PETA people object to people who train their dogs to do tricks? And if neural implants are so horrible, why do the ethics board let scientists put 'em in people too?

Lastly, it's positive-reinforcement, not negative-reinforcement - so the rats -aren't- being mistreated. At all.

Late_Cretaceous · 05-05-2002, 10:12 AM

I don't see any problem with it either. I just thought it was an amusing case of life imitating art (if you can call star trek art)

Kaina · 05-05-2002, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corona688:
<strong>
Do the PETA people object to people who train their dogs to do tricks? </strong>

PETA objects to the "owning" of companion animals period. These robot rats will be one more thing for them to freak about. Talwar's group should be highly conscious of lab security.

Skepticwithachainsaw · 05-06-2002, 04:16 AM

Well judging by the fact that they are just using pleasure when the rats go in the right direction, I don't see to many ethical problems with it.

Hell I'ld wouldn't mind that arrangment myself

jojo-sa · 05-06-2002, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corona688:
<strong>*shrug*
I don't see what the problem is, really
</strong>

cos ur nothing but deaf dumb and blind

hahahaha

Skepticwithachainsaw · 05-06-2002, 09:30 AM

Been chewing at that lead pipe again Jojo?

nogods4me · 05-06-2002, 10:04 AM

Resistence is futile! Pass the cheddar.

05-04-2002, 03:05 PM	#1
Late_Cretaceous Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,049	Oh Rats! The Borg are here, we will all be assimulated. I am sure by now you all have heard of the cyborg rats. <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1961000/1961798.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1961000/1961798.stm</a> Today its rodents, tomorrow Locutus

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05-05-2002, 08:03 AM	#3
Bill Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gatorville, Florida Posts: 4,334	Ooooohh. Don't let <a href="http://www.peta.org/" target="_blank">PETA</a> hear about this one! Frankly, this is ethically scary. On the one hand, I can see that rats are "pests" and are subject to summary execution whenver they are found in my home. On the other hand, they are also fellow mammals, and recent genetic research has proven that they aren't all that different from any other mammals, including (of course) humans. I don't know what I ought to think about this sort of thing. == Bill

05-05-2002, 09:38 AM	#4
Corona688 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Hiding from Julian ;) Posts: 5,368	shrug I don't see what the problem is, really... this isn't some form of hyper-remote-control where we take over the rat and force it to do our bidding, it is a new and highly effective form of training. Do the PETA people object to people who train their dogs to do tricks? And if neural implants are so horrible, why do the ethics board let scientists put 'em in people too? Lastly, it's positive-reinforcement, not negative-reinforcement - so the rats -aren't- being mistreated. At all.

05-05-2002, 10:12 AM	#5
Late_Cretaceous Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,049	I don't see any problem with it either. I just thought it was an amusing case of life imitating art (if you can call star trek art)

05-06-2002, 04:16 AM	#7
Skepticwithachainsaw Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In your Imagination Posts: 69	Well judging by the fact that they are just using pleasure when the rats go in the right direction, I don't see to many ethical problems with it. Hell I'ld wouldn't mind that arrangment myself

05-06-2002, 09:30 AM	#9
Skepticwithachainsaw Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In your Imagination Posts: 69	Been chewing at that lead pipe again Jojo?

05-06-2002, 10:04 AM	#10
nogods4me Contributor Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 17,432	Resistence is futile! Pass the cheddar.

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