Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mary and Mike · 02-09-2003, 06:47 PM

My husband and I have had several heated debates about this.

We are both atheists, but I believe that when we die we go somewhere. I just don't believe that the somewhere is heaven or hell or that there is a supreme god (being) waiting there for me. My husband believes that when we die that's it, we are gone forever. Anyone else's thoughts?

Also, does this make me a weak athiest and my husband a strong one? (I have heard those terms used before, not sure what exactly they mean.)

Mary

JEST2ASK · 02-09-2003, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mary and Mike
My husband and I have had several heated debates about this.

We are both atheists, but I believe that when we die we go somewhere. I just don't believe that the somewhere is heaven or hell or that there is a supreme god (being) waiting there for me. My husband believes that when we die that's it, we are gone forever. Anyone else's thoughts?

Mary

Hi ... I am someone & I have a thought on this matter.

Wherever I was (my mind) before I became aware is where I will return ... IMO from nothing into nothing ... strangely I find that more comforting then any theory of an afterlife... These magic moments so precious and so few. Hope to expand on this soon but right now all I can communicate in a semi-intelligent manner.

A side note gee a couple that has heated debates how unusual.

K · 02-09-2003, 07:13 PM

Mary,

It doesn't make you a weak atheist. You probably couldn't claim to be a skeptic. But if you don't believe in deities, you're an atheist.

What makes you believe that there is life after death? Is it just wanting it to be so, or have you seen some evidence that convinces you?

Mary and Mike · 02-09-2003, 08:16 PM

Mainly something my husband told me....but also some of my own accounts.

My husband story. He once overdosed. They took him to the hospital, he died (as in flat line) He said he remembers floating above his body, looking down, but felt like there was a hand on his back keeping him from floating away. Next thing he knew he was back in his body.

Me personally, I have just been visited by ghosts. No one claiming to be god or anything, but I have to ask myself, how could I just have seen that and since I did see that where did it come from?

Mary

christ-on-a-stick · 02-09-2003, 08:29 PM

Hi Mary,

I am curious as to why, after your husband's experience, he still believes that "when you die that's it" whereas you retain a belief in "going somewhere" after death. How does *he* explain his experience?

Also, could you elaborate some more on the ghost visitation a bit? I have had some strange experiences in my lifetime that in retrospect (not being clouded by my superstitious thinking at the time) naturalistic explanations were pretty clear.

Just curious.. and welcome to the boards!!!

beyelzu · 02-09-2003, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mary and Mike
My husband and I have had several heated debates about this.

We are both atheists, but I believe that when we die we go somewhere. I just don't believe that the somewhere is heaven or hell or that there is a supreme god (being) waiting there for me. My husband believes that when we die that's it, we are gone forever. Anyone else's thoughts?

Also, does this make me a weak athiest and my husband a strong one? (I have heard those terms used before, not sure what exactly they mean.)

Mary

weak atheist doesnt believe in god, but allows that a god could exist.

strong atheist asserts that there is no god and usually no supernatural as well.

so your respective belief systems seem to make you a weak atheist and him a strong atheist.

I am a metaphysical naturalist, which is strong atheism or the natural world is all that there is, I believe that when I die I just go in the ground. End of story.

Mary and Mike · 02-09-2003, 08:42 PM

He says.. he has scientifically heard that when you die there are still electronic impluses that are in your brain and that you have one last hallucination to ease you into death. But even at that he also says maybe our consiousness hangs around awhile before it disapates.

Me on the other hand:

Once I was going to bed. I was in my room and looking towards the door. I heard footsteps coming up the stairs, walked past the door and into the bathroom, I saw the light come on and then heard the water running. A few seconds the footsteps came back and stopped in front of the door, but no one was there.

I have many other stories of ghosts and weird things about that house too.

I asked Mike about what are ghosts then? He said that there are somethings that he can't explainand that science can not explain. But he doesn't have any proof that there is an afterlife.

Mary

Mary and Mike · 02-09-2003, 08:50 PM

__________________________________________________ _
Originally posted by Beyelzu
weak atheist doesnt believe in god, but allows that a god could exist.

strong atheist asserts that there is no god and usually no supernatural as well.

so your respective belief systems seem to make you a weak atheist and him a strong atheist.
__________________________________________________ _

Actuallyit is the opposite way around. Mike just said to me "If someone could prove that there is a god then he woud believe." He saus he can not prove or disprove there is a god, and that there is a lot of things that man just doesn't know. Next thought, it would be very difficult to sway him even with some types of "proof". Example: Bible.

Me on the other hand, No amount of anything could prove to me that there is a god, but I believe that there is somewhere we go when we die. I definitly do not allow that a god could exist. I once told someone " As much as you have faith that there is a god, I have faith that there isn't."

Mary

Radorth · 02-09-2003, 10:17 PM

The only people who badly need to believe something here are atheists- they badly need there to be no life after death. The implications are quite unbearable to most of their worldviews.

There are thousands of after-death experiences, and proofs of their happening. Carl Jung had an extensive one, particularly interesting. Atheists either don't like to talk about them, or end up mumbling about oxygen deprivation or ketamine, which even Janssen decided were to simplistic to explain all the experiences. Or they start saying "Well some of them didn't see Jesus." So what.

We don't simply cease to exist, at least not all of us. I suppose it is possible some do, but I doubt it.

Rad

Phanes · 02-09-2003, 11:02 PM

Hallucinations aren't exactly uncommon when your brain starts to shut down. Strange that many near-death experiences have visual components, maybe even some audible, but you rarely (if ever) hear of one with smell, touch, or taste; hallucinations work the same way.

I have seen an article somewhere reputable (SciAm or CNN I think) that talked about scientists who discovered a possible explanation for NDE. They stimulated some part of the brain, and subjects reported seeing a bright light and feeling a sensation of floating above their body. I'll look for it later if I remember.

Anyway, at least that has more evidence going for it than any account of the afterlife I've ever heard.

Incidentally, a god who punishes people based on whether they believe in him or not, as opposed to how they act towards their fellow beings, is quite a primitive brute. I find it hard to imagine the Creator of the universe being so petty.

02-09-2003, 06:47 PM	#1
Mary and Mike Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In reality Posts: 21	Life after Death? My husband and I have had several heated debates about this. We are both atheists, but I believe that when we die we go somewhere. I just don't believe that the somewhere is heaven or hell or that there is a supreme god (being) waiting there for me. My husband believes that when we die that's it, we are gone forever. Anyone else's thoughts? Also, does this make me a weak athiest and my husband a strong one? (I have heard those terms used before, not sure what exactly they mean.) Mary

02-09-2003, 08:50 PM	#8
Mary and Mike Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In reality Posts: 21	Re: Re: Life after Death? __________________________________________________ _ Originally posted by Beyelzu weak atheist doesnt believe in god, but allows that a god could exist. strong atheist asserts that there is no god and usually no supernatural as well. so your respective belief systems seem to make you a weak atheist and him a strong atheist. __________________________________________________ _ Actuallyit is the opposite way around. Mike just said to me "If someone could prove that there is a god then he woud believe." He saus he can not prove or disprove there is a god, and that there is a lot of things that man just doesn't know. Next thought, it would be very difficult to sway him even with some types of "proof". Example: Bible. Me on the other hand, No amount of anything could prove to me that there is a god, but I believe that there is somewhere we go when we die. I definitly do not allow that a god could exist. I once told someone " As much as you have faith that there is a god, I have faith that there isn't." Mary

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02-09-2003, 07:13 PM	#3
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Mary, It doesn't make you a weak atheist. You probably couldn't claim to be a skeptic. But if you don't believe in deities, you're an atheist. What makes you believe that there is life after death? Is it just wanting it to be so, or have you seen some evidence that convinces you?

02-09-2003, 08:16 PM	#4
Mary and Mike Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In reality Posts: 21	Mainly something my husband told me....but also some of my own accounts. My husband story. He once overdosed. They took him to the hospital, he died (as in flat line) He said he remembers floating above his body, looking down, but felt like there was a hand on his back keeping him from floating away. Next thing he knew he was back in his body. Me personally, I have just been visited by ghosts. No one claiming to be god or anything, but I have to ask myself, how could I just have seen that and since I did see that where did it come from? Mary

02-09-2003, 08:29 PM	#5
christ-on-a-stick Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Durango, Colorado Posts: 7,116	Hi Mary, I am curious as to why, after your husband's experience, he still believes that "when you die that's it" whereas you retain a belief in "going somewhere" after death. How does he explain his experience? Also, could you elaborate some more on the ghost visitation a bit? I have had some strange experiences in my lifetime that in retrospect (not being clouded by my superstitious thinking at the time) naturalistic explanations were pretty clear. Just curious.. and welcome to the boards!!!

02-09-2003, 08:42 PM	#7
Mary and Mike Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: In reality Posts: 21	He says.. he has scientifically heard that when you die there are still electronic impluses that are in your brain and that you have one last hallucination to ease you into death. But even at that he also says maybe our consiousness hangs around awhile before it disapates. Me on the other hand: Once I was going to bed. I was in my room and looking towards the door. I heard footsteps coming up the stairs, walked past the door and into the bathroom, I saw the light come on and then heard the water running. A few seconds the footsteps came back and stopped in front of the door, but no one was there. I have many other stories of ghosts and weird things about that house too. I asked Mike about what are ghosts then? He said that there are somethings that he can't explainand that science can not explain. But he doesn't have any proof that there is an afterlife. Mary

02-09-2003, 10:17 PM	#9
Radorth Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,872	The only people who badly need to believe something here are atheists- they badly need there to be no life after death. The implications are quite unbearable to most of their worldviews. There are thousands of after-death experiences, and proofs of their happening. Carl Jung had an extensive one, particularly interesting. Atheists either don't like to talk about them, or end up mumbling about oxygen deprivation or ketamine, which even Janssen decided were to simplistic to explain all the experiences. Or they start saying "Well some of them didn't see Jesus." So what. We don't simply cease to exist, at least not all of us. I suppose it is possible some do, but I doubt it. Rad

02-09-2003, 11:02 PM	#10
Phanes Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 127	Hallucinations aren't exactly uncommon when your brain starts to shut down. Strange that many near-death experiences have visual components, maybe even some audible, but you rarely (if ever) hear of one with smell, touch, or taste; hallucinations work the same way. I have seen an article somewhere reputable (SciAm or CNN I think) that talked about scientists who discovered a possible explanation for NDE. They stimulated some part of the brain, and subjects reported seeing a bright light and feeling a sensation of floating above their body. I'll look for it later if I remember. Anyway, at least that has more evidence going for it than any account of the afterlife I've ever heard. Incidentally, a god who punishes people based on whether they believe in him or not, as opposed to how they act towards their fellow beings, is quite a primitive brute. I find it hard to imagine the Creator of the universe being so petty.

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