RJS

for example?

Mageth

For example what? What I would consider "facts", perhaps?

xeren

Atheists are atheists because they have searched, and found no good evidence to believe the positive claim "God exists". Not because they don't want a god to exist or hate god or something like that.

If undeniable, verifiable proof of god's existence was to come about, atheists would no loner be atheists because they would now have evidence to believe.

RJS

yes, undeniable facts. What would be the minimum you might accept as fact/proof?

Mageth

I'd have to say that one "undeniable fact" indicating god's existence would probably be enough.

As to what that fact might be, I don't know. Got any?

RJS

It really was intended as a sincere question. I know it is a bit off-topic. But ultimately it is a personal decision as to what the minimum "fact" might be. I'll propose a few.

1) You hear an audible voice while you are alone - saying "This is God, and you should believe in me."

2) You see and touch an entity that appears before you and says the same thing as above, then the entity disappears.

3) Number one or two above, but then the voice or entity tells you that you will levitate for the next 10 seconds, and it happens.

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: RJS ]</p>

Mageth

It really was intended as a sincere question.

And my answer was sincere, as well.

I wouldn't consider any of the personal experiences listed above as verifiable facts proving god's existence, as I know that individuals (and even groups) can hallucinate voices, presences and experiences.

Got any more?

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

RJS

That is really why I started this by asking you. I was hoping you could communicate what such a fact might be - for you. It would be quicker if you just told me.

So are you saying you can't think of any?

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: RJS ]</p>

Mageth

And I answered, "As to what that fact might be, I don't know."

It would have to be beyond a merely personal experience, something that would be universally witnessed and could only be explained by supernatural causes.

xeren

RJS, from the impression I'm geting, it seems that you are saying that if i honestly have searched for the truth of the matter, and cannot conclude that a god exists, and i am wrong, then i won't be punished with hell, am i correct?