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Reload this Page Where does freewill lurk?
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Old 06-10-2002, 08:33 PM   #21
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ax: A friend once told me that for free will to truely
exist, we must be in a state of ablivion-where there are no factors to determine our choices.
Your friend is right. To have true free will (known as hard free will), you have to have intentionally caused yourself to be the way you are. And, of course, you can't have done that because you had to have already been the way you are when you caused yourself to be the way you are. You can't bootstrap yourself.
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Old 06-10-2002, 08:33 PM   #22
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In regards to the 2nd last statement.
So when the bible says " God saw" or " God made".
It is a fault in the bible? meaning it is not inspired by God because their are no faults in God
are there? And even if there are fualts, to what degree do these mistakes go? ( its off the subject so no need for respond).

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: ax ]</p>
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Old 06-10-2002, 08:47 PM   #23
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luvluv: You can change your beliefs.
No; your beliefs change due to experience; YOU don't change them (except in the soft sense that the beliefs belong to YOU). Could you believe in the invisible pink unicorn for just five minutes if you tried really hard and I offered you a lot of money? No, because you're not in charge of what you believe; your mental processing system informs you of of your belief system. You could parrot the words, "I believe in the Great Unicorn", but that would have no effect on what you actually believed; you are totally at the mercy of your mental machinations.
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Old 06-10-2002, 08:49 PM   #24
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Originally posted by Philosoft:
<strong>If it is not possible for me to choose 'not action 'a'' because God knows that's the action I will choose, by what definition is that a 'free choice'?</strong>
Can I butt in?

You have the choice. God knows the choice you will make.

If you choose God He knew it. If you choose not God He knew it.

Free-will is made so you bring yourself to accountability with God.

God is God and can't help but know everything.

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: unworthyone ]</p>
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Old 06-10-2002, 09:00 PM   #25
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unworthy: Can I butt in?
Yes, we may all butt in.

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You have the choice.
How's that? If I feed in a question asking whether something is true, and it comes out "Bzzzt; wrong!", how is that my choice? Yes, I'm the one who doesn't believe it, but I certainly can't help not believing it.
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Old 06-10-2002, 09:00 PM   #26
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But is He responisble for the state we are in?
If you leave a house unlocked, and you say " it will probably get broken into" and it does, who is at fault? :
1.the owner.
2.the criminal.
3.both.
Please answer with one of the choices I have listed.And explain why.(imagine you are the insurance company).
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Old 06-10-2002, 09:05 PM   #27
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Originally posted by DRFseven:
<strong>How's that? If I feed in a question asking whether something is true, and it comes out "Bzzzt; wrong!", how is that my choice? Yes, I'm the one who doesn't believe it, but I certainly can't help not believing it.</strong>
You opened your mouth.
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Old 06-10-2002, 09:07 PM   #28
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Originally posted by ax:
<strong>But is He responisble for the state we are in?
If you leave a house unlocked, and you say " it will probably get broken into" and it does, who is at fault? :
1.the owner.
2.the criminal.
3.both.
Please answer with one of the choices I have listed.And explain why.(imagine you are the insurance company).
</strong>
Both.
Yes God is at fault.
Yes you are at fault.

Free-will=Accountability for you, not for God. Everything is God's fault. He made everything.

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: unworthyone ]</p>
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Old 06-10-2002, 09:13 PM   #29
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unworthy: You opened your mouth.
What does this mean in the context of this discussion?
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Old 06-10-2002, 09:15 PM   #30
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Originally posted by DRFseven:
<strong>What does this mean in the context of this discussion?</strong>
It was the choice to open it that made it his choice and God's.

All of free-will options are a mutual decision between you and God.

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: unworthyone ]</p>
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