Rima

hello emotional:
I did only reply to pauls post:
to explain that these names (michael , uriel , raphael and gabriel) have meanings and their meanings are not :"they are Gods" as he claimed
I am a believer who believe in God , who has an intimate experience with him , but I don`t believe in any organized religion , I think that they are all wrong


I recieved your PM and I tried to send you my reply but it seems to me it is so complicated I don`t know how to use the private messaging board
blessings

Rima

Emotional : check your PM box , I think I did it this time :banghead:

emotional

Ah, a freethinker (no sarcasm intended). I too considered the various religions and found them wanting. The only question I still have open is whether atheism (naturalism) is true or not.

You just press the "Send Reply" button at the bottom of the screen.

emotional

Ah, good! I got it.

Pierre Bezukhov

Job 1:6-7 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." (NKJV)

Magus, are you saying Satan's not sinful?

Bumble Bee Tuna

Serious questions for Magus:

Why are angels capable of having free will but not sinning, and humans are not? Is sin hereditary?

I'm just seeing problems comparing Angels, where 1/3 sinned but the rest don't, and humans, where 2 sinned and doomed every single other human for the rest of eternity to sin as well.

-B

Magus55

Yes I'd say sin is "hereditary". The difference being, Angels don't procreate. That angels that rebelled, aren't biologically related to the ones that didn't. They were individually created. Each one of them is like an Adam in regards to opportunity to sin. They also don't live in a fallen world where the temptation to sin is very high.

Diadectes

Magus, I'm fairly new here, so I'm not sure how this works, but are you going to answer any of the points raised by Dr Rick, myself and others about the holes in your theories? Or do you just ignore the difficult questions? You certainly seem to have time to educate us on the nature and biology of beings that no one's ever had the opportunity to study, so I'd have thought correcting any errors in our reasoning would be simple by comparison.

missus_gumby

Here's every reference to angels, seraphim and cherubim in the KJV. "Sons of man" et al, are not included.


Old Testament - Angels

1. Genesis 16:09-16:12 - Angels have the ability to speak. (At least in ancient Hebrew)
2. Genesis 19:02-19:03 - They have feet and can eat.
3. Genesis 28:11 - They climb up and down ladders to get to and from Heaven.

4. Exodus 3:2 - Angels can appear to people from in or near non-burning, burning bushes.

5. Numbers 22:23 - They carry and use swords.

6. Judges 5:23 - Angels issue curses.
7. Judges 6:11 - Angels can sit.
8. Judges 6:21 - They have hands and can carry a staff.
9. Judges 6:22 - They have faces.
10. Judges 13:06 - Angels have a terrible countenance.
11. Judges 13:18 - They can have secret names.

12. 2Samuel 24:16 - They destroy people.

13. Kings 19:05 - Angels can touch things.

14. 2kings 19:35 - Angels are not above killing 5180 Assyrians in one go.

15. Psalms 78:48 - Thay can be evil.

16. Zechariah 1:11 - Angels can stand.

New Testament - Angels

17. Matthew 1:20 - They can appear to people in dreams.
18. Matthew 25:41 - There are two kinds of angels - God's angels and the Devil's angels.
19. Matthew 28:02 - Angels can move medium sized rocks.
20. Matthew 28:03 - The have a countenance like lightening and their clothing is white.
21. Matthew 28:04 - Angels instill fear in people.

22. Mark 12:25 - They live in Heaven.

23. Luke 1:19 - One of them is called Gabriel.
24. Luke 1:26-1:38 - Angels are messengers.
25. Luke 15:10 - Angels experience joy every time a sinner repents.
26. Luke 16:22 - They can carry things.
27. Luke 20:36 - Angels don't die.

28. John 5:04 - They can interact physically with water to make it a special healing water.
29. John 20:12 - They ask rhetorical questions.

30. Acts 5:19 - Angels are not above springing folks from jail.
31. Acts 12:07 - They know how to undo chains.
32. Acts 12:10 - Angels can open gates.

33. 1Thessalonians 4:16 - There is a heirarchy of angels.
34. 1Thessalonians 4:16 - Angels have voices that can be similar to God's.
35. 2Thessalonians 1:07 - Angels are mighty.

36. Hebrews 12:22 - There is an innumerable amount of angels.
37. Hebrews 13:02 - Angels somtimes appear in the guise of humans.

38. Jude 1:09 - There is an archangel called Michael.

39. Revlation 5:02 - Angels can have loud voices.
40. Revelation 7:01 - They know where the four corners of the earth are.
41. Revelation 7:01 - Angels are able to hold the wind.
42. Revelation 8:04 - They burn incense.
43. Revelation 8:07 - They know how to play the trumpet.
44. Revelation 8:13 - When they are in heaven they can fly.
45. Revelation 10:01 - Angels can wear clouds and have rainbows on their heads.
46. Revelation 10:01 - They can have faces that shine as bright as the sun.
47. Revelation 10:01 - Angels sometimes have feet made of fire.
48. Revelation 10:02 - They have little books.
49. Revelation 10:04 - Angels can write.
50. Revelation 10:08 - Angels can stand on water.
51. Revelation 10:10 - Angels are not above giving humans little books to eat, but make them nice to taste, even though the little books, when eaten, give humans indigestion.
52. Revelation 12:07 - They fight with dragons.
53. Revelation 14:06 - Angels can speak every language.
54. Revelation 14:07 - They carry sharp sickles.
55. Revelation 15:06 - Angels wear white linen and golden girdles.
56. Revelation 18:21 - They can lift and throw millstones.
57. Revelation 19:17 - Angels can stand in the sun.
58. Revelation 20:01 - Angels have the key to the bottomless pit.
59. Revelation 22:26 - They are sent by Jesus.

Old Testament - Cherubim

1. Genesis 3:24 - Some Cherubim know where the eastern section of the garden of Eden is.
2. Exodus 25:20 - There are two gold cherubim carved small enough to fit on the ark of the covenant. They have wings, and faces.
3. Exodus 26:01 - Images of cherubim are woven into curtains.
4. 1Kings 6:23 - Large cherubim can be made of olive wood, covered in gold.
5. 1Kings 6:29 - Images of cherubim can be carved into walls.
6. 1Kings 6:32 - Images of cherubim can be carved into doors, and can be covered with gold.
7. 1Kings 7:29 - Images of cherubim can be incorporated into the borders of a 'molten sea'.
8. 1Kings 7:36 - ...and onto the plates of the ledges of the 'molten sea'.
9. 2Kings 19:15 - Hezekiah says that God dwells between cherubim.
10. 2Chronicles 3:13 - Images of Cherubim have feet.
11. Psalms 18:10 - God is small enough to ride on a cherub. Cherubs can fly.
12. Ezekiel 10:01 - Cherubim have heads.
13. Ezekiel 10:03 - Cherubim can stand.
14. Ezekiel 10:05 - Cherubim wings make a sound.
15. Ezekiel 10:07 - Cherubs have at least one hand, which is fireproof.
16. Ezekiel 10:08 - Cherubim can grow hands under their wings.
17. Ezekiel 10:20 - Cherubim are living creatures.
18. Ezekiel 28:14 - Cherubs have been to the holy mountain of God at least once and walked up and down it.
19. Ezekiel 41:18 - Images of cherubs can have two faces, a man and a lion.

Old Testament - Seraphim


1. Isaiah 6:02 - Seraphim sit above God's throne.
2. Isaiah 6:02 - Seraphim have six wings, two of which can cover a seraph face, two to cover the feet and two to fly.
3. Isaiah 6:03 - Seraphim are capable of speech.
4. Isaiah 6:06 - Seraphim are capable of using tongs to carry hot coals.
5. Isaiah 6:07 - Seraphim can lay a hot coal on someones mouth which will take away iniquity and purge sin.

Rima

dear missus_gumby:
thank you so much ,for your great reply :boohoo: