catman

I wanted to get others opinion on John 3:16. I feel that only those who choose Jesus are the chosen--hence this cancels out the jews. Does anybody else see it that way?

Psycho Economist

Well, <a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/3.html" target="_blank">John 3:18</a> answers that pretty succinctly:
Paul agrees with that line of reasoning, as do the authors of Mark and Acts... but the Gospels of Luke, and Matthew, as well as the epistle of James, Peter, and the old testament don't agree... Some of them say faith and behavior is necessary; others say that it's all based on behavior. See the Skeptic's Annotated Bible on <a href="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/faithalone.html" target="_blank">the topic of salvation through faith (alone)</a>.

Of course personally, I don't see evidence for the existance for immortal souls, so the question is moot to me.

(Edited to add the text of 3:16.)

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: Psycho Economist ]</p>

Amos

"Many are called but few are chosen." There seems to be a difference between the choices made by God and the choices made by us. This cancels out the protestants and includes the Jews.

Mingan

It cancels out Jewish doctrine, not the Jews themselves. They have as much right to believe as anyone else.

Laurentius

"Many are called but few are chosen."

translates into:

God's message is address to the masses
many of whom will answer
but few appropriately
(i.e. few will live up to the biblical demands).

This can apply to any regulated area of social activity. Everyone is supposed to comply with the rules but few are really expected to observe them in detail. That's about as deep as this kind of philosopizing should go I think so it won't turn into typicall xian spliting hairs.

AVE

Bible Humper

Hello there Amos!

I like reading your posts, Amos, and I can't help but notice that a common theme is an apparent hatred of Protestantism in all of it's manifestations.

It seems out of character, Amos! I can understand your animosity towards the religion itself, but why the Protestants themselves who were born into their sect? They don't know any better!

Do you think that they will be less able to free themselves from their ego's grip upon dying than anyone else? Are they even more damned than the atheists?

You told me once that you lived in the Netherlands before coming to Canada, it makes me wonder if you had bad experiences there due to historical grievances between the Protestant majority and Catholic minority.

See ya.

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Bible Humper ]</p>

Amos

Not true at all, I like protestants (that is, generic protestant with a small p). It is just that their theology is wrong and it seems that I have a keen eye for that.

Many protestants go religion shopping and they seem to know exactly what they want in religion.

"Many are called" indicates that God calls and we respond (not the other way around). Out of the many called "Few are chosen" and this is where Catholic baptism is needed (I'll write on this someday).

I met my first protestant in Canada and they actually roused my curiosity and so I got to know them quite well. Some of my friends are beautiful people but their life seems to be overloaded with paradoxes and these become faith builders for them. I am just opposite and things have to make sense in my mind before put them to rest. They (my neighbors and friends) like to talk to me about religion and I am very gentle with them. Yes out of respect for their faith.

Bible Humper

Ok Amos, that's good to know. Thanks.