Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bubba · 11-07-2002, 01:31 PM

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1107scout.asp" target="_blank">www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1107scout.asp</a>

In a fit of blinding non logic AIG is blaming evolution on the lack of faith of a 19 year old boy scout. The boy clearly says that he was agnostic before his 9th grade science class, then became an athiest when everything "came together."

It seems as if AIG is saying that high school students will automatically lose faith if they study evolution, kind of the old Phil Johnson naturalism thing.

Why then do so many students in Catholic schools who study evolution still remain thiests? What about Protestant schools like Baylor University, Wheaton College, Calvin College etc. that teach evolution? What about thiestic evolutionists?

Once again creationism stumbles over clear evidence to the contrary and preaches its own half truth. But then, hey, scare tactics have got to drive up contributions, right?

Bubba

Camaban · 11-07-2002, 01:50 PM

Quote:

The boy clearly says that he was agnostic before his 9th grade science class, then became an athiest when everything "came together."

I thought agnostics were the ones that had a complete lack of faith (including the faith that there is no god)

If anything, he gained faith after being taught evolution

LiveFreeOrDie · 11-07-2002, 01:51 PM

Actually, AiG is right. Evolution does cause some people to have a crisis of faith.

Is that a valid reason, though, to not teach the theory? It's not the fault of science that some religions are so narrow-minded that their foundations of faith are in conflict with the truth.

Camaban · 11-07-2002, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiveFreeOrDie:
Actually, AiG is right. Evolution does cause some people to have a crisis of faith.

Is that a valid reason, though, to not teach the theory? It's not the fault of science that some religions are so narrow-minded that their foundations of faith are in conflict with the truth.

If they teach their people that reality isn't what it actually is, why should they be surprised when people get pissed off at being lied to?

Like for anyone that's read the bear and dragon. what happened when the chinese found out how much they were being lied to.

If they were honest, the people who find out it's not literal wouldn't stop trusting their preachers, and from there, their faith

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Camaban ]

Mageth · 11-07-2002, 02:05 PM

Damn, what a load of crap.

National Public Radio (NPR), USA, was so astonished by the story that it interviewed the young Scout to find out why he had become such an outspoken atheist, willing to sacrifice everything for his new convictions

I would hardly classify getting booted out of the Scouts as "sacrificing everything."

I do not want to see any youth from my church offer the same excuse as this lost young man

Lost?

Now that his evolutionist teachers have converted Mr Lambert to staunch atheism, it seems unlikely (from a human perspective) that he�ll ever return to belief in God.

I can safely say that his teachers had no intent of converting him to "staunch" atheism. That's a rational decision he came to on his own. What these yahoos want to do is to not give young people all of the information necessary to make a rational decision about god on their own.

Camaban · 11-07-2002, 02:07 PM

Quote:

National Public Radio (NPR), USA, was so astonished by the story that it interviewed the young Scout to find out why he had become such an outspoken atheist, willing to sacrifice everything for his new convictions

I would hardly classify getting booted out of the Scouts as "sacrificing everything."

What? He should have lied about his beliefs to stay in?

[ November 07, 2002: Message edited by: Camaban ]

Mageth · 11-07-2002, 02:14 PM

What? He should have lied about his beliefs to stay in?

Huh? Am I missing something? Where did you get that in what I said?

tgamble · 11-07-2002, 02:45 PM

It might be interesting to find out what high school he attends. If it turns out that he wasn't taught evolution, AIG won't have a leg to stand on.

Not that that will stop them of course.

RufusAtticus · 11-07-2002, 02:48 PM

The title of this tread is like saying that the sun will come up tomorrow.

Undercurrent · 11-07-2002, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
I would hardly classify getting booted out of the Scouts as "sacrificing everything."

From the same group of people who justify theism's veracity through the accounts a martyrs -- If somebody "sacrificed everything" for a belief, it must be true.

Quote:

�I was always agnostic before, and wasn�t really sure, and then in ninth grade I started getting more into science classes, and you know, more and more as I get into high school and in college, evolution just seems to fit better.�

Assuming that the scout brought up the reference to evolution unprompted, it does definitely seem that Mr. Lambert preceives belief in the reality of evolution as one of the major differences between christians and atheists, and that his acceptance of evolution led him to atheism.

I do agree with the AiG article (damn! who said that?!) that belief in evolution can be damaging to christian faith. After all, these people are supposed to know the mind of the creator of the universe -- They shouldn't be so terribly wrong about these things. Even if they aren't of the fundamentalist mindset and can accept that the bible can be wrong, they then have to deal with the fact that biblical interpretation is a lot more difficult and you can never know if what you think is actually true or not.

Ironically, I think that this is one of the more honest AiG articles. It doesn't try to hid the fact that AiG's objection to evolution is that they believe it's bad for christianity, not for science.

m.

11-07-2002, 01:31 PM	#1
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	AIG Lies Again <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1107scout.asp" target="_blank">www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1107scout.asp</a> In a fit of blinding non logic AIG is blaming evolution on the lack of faith of a 19 year old boy scout. The boy clearly says that he was agnostic before his 9th grade science class, then became an athiest when everything "came together." It seems as if AIG is saying that high school students will automatically lose faith if they study evolution, kind of the old Phil Johnson naturalism thing. Why then do so many students in Catholic schools who study evolution still remain thiests? What about Protestant schools like Baylor University, Wheaton College, Calvin College etc. that teach evolution? What about thiestic evolutionists? Once again creationism stumbles over clear evidence to the contrary and preaches its own half truth. But then, hey, scare tactics have got to drive up contributions, right? Bubba

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11-07-2002, 01:51 PM	#3
LiveFreeOrDie Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA Posts: 77	Actually, AiG is right. Evolution does cause some people to have a crisis of faith. Is that a valid reason, though, to not teach the theory? It's not the fault of science that some religions are so narrow-minded that their foundations of faith are in conflict with the truth.

11-07-2002, 02:05 PM	#5
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Damn, what a load of crap. National Public Radio (NPR), USA, was so astonished by the story that it interviewed the young Scout to find out why he had become such an outspoken atheist, willing to sacrifice everything for his new convictions I would hardly classify getting booted out of the Scouts as "sacrificing everything." I do not want to see any youth from my church offer the same excuse as this lost young man Lost? Now that his evolutionist teachers have converted Mr Lambert to staunch atheism, it seems unlikely (from a human perspective) that he�ll ever return to belief in God. I can safely say that his teachers had no intent of converting him to "staunch" atheism. That's a rational decision he came to on his own. What these yahoos want to do is to not give young people all of the information necessary to make a rational decision about god on their own.

11-07-2002, 02:14 PM	#7
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	What? He should have lied about his beliefs to stay in? Huh? Am I missing something? Where did you get that in what I said?

11-07-2002, 02:45 PM	#8
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	It might be interesting to find out what high school he attends. If it turns out that he wasn't taught evolution, AIG won't have a leg to stand on. Not that that will stop them of course.

11-07-2002, 02:48 PM	#9
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	The title of this tread is like saying that the sun will come up tomorrow.

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