Steven Carr

Whispers writes off psychology as a science, proving once again that when push comes to shove, Christians are anti-science, determined to drag science back into the dark ages of 'humours' , demon-possession and love being caused by Cupid firing arrows at people.

Steven Carr

We are not merely the random fluke of chemicals coming together, this is confusing source with outcome.


Suppose we are like Pinocchio, an inanimate object which has human life come to it, very analogous to God supposedly breathing life into clay.

What was it about Pinocchio that made him so wonderfully special, simply because he had been created by somebody who wanted a boy to love him?

Whispers

I have studies psychology. It is NOT a science.

How did you get all of this..."when push comes to shove, Christians are anti-science, determined to drag science back into the dark ages of 'humours' , demon-possession and love being caused by Cupid firing arrows at people"?

from this...."Are we not to discuss these types of issue because they are subjective? Must we relegate all of these issues of the heart to the wastebin, because I cannot prove to you what I am saying? Can a subjective experience not be discussed openly and honestly?

Love cannot be measured in any way shape or form, and IF you have not experienced it, than maybe you believe it does not exist? But it does, doesn’t it? See what I mean"?

Wyz_sub10

Good psychology is based on biology, which is absolutely a science.

This reminds me of a joke from university - "when you get to university, you discover that psychology is really biology, biology is really chemistry, chemistry is really physics, physics is really math, and math is really."

The point is that any good science devoted to human health not going to be segregated from other sciences.

Steven Carr

Psychology is a science.

You were anti-science by denying that there is a science which studies the mind and of emotions.

Atheists do not deny subjective feelings.

Historically, it was Christians who denied subjective feelings (eg the pain of animals)

Are you denying there is a god who causes people to fall in loive by firing arrows at them? Are you denying love exists? If you have experienced love, how can you turn around and say Cupid does not exist?

Stephen T-B

The fact that Whispers asks DMB to provide “verifiable facts and figures” to back up her claims that human beings are on average enjoying increased prosperity, better health, increased peace for many people and increased religious tolerance suggests he doesn’t know much about history.

Name a period, Whispers, in which prosperity, health, peace and religious tolerance were greater than they are today.

DMB

Whispers: there are many sources of information about GDPs. I instanced big increases in life expectancy that point to better health. These figures are available as UN statistics. Ditto for numbers in absolute poverty.

I am at my holiday home and have no reference books here. I will try to source some of these figures on the internet, but have no time today, and I'm sorry I have only just seen this post.

General point: I am not trying to play down the problems that the world faces. They are a matter of great concern. But the fact that the earth is now supporting over 6 billion people when a century ago it was a long way below 2 billion and that life expectancy has increased so dramatically are evidence of very real progress. Even in the developed world alone, many of our immediate ancestors a century ago were living at subsistence level.

Whispers

With all respect Stephen, when we debate the existence of God, the burden of proof rests with me. When side claims are made, the burden of proof is with the person claiming them.

Not being funny here, just an observation.

Stephen T-B

You mean, if I were to state that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west you'd want me to provide "verifiable facts and figures"?

DMB wasn’t making a controversial claim; she was stating something which anyone who knows anything about the past is well aware of.

(Sorry if I sound sharp, but comments about “things being better in the old days” always annoy me. Things were not better in the old days. Millions of people lead wretched lives, true. But then so did their ancestors. Rather fewer millions (but millions nevertheless) lead comfortable, secure lives - but very few (if any) of their ancestors did.

Whispers

QUOTE---You mean, if I were to state that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west you'd want me to provide "verifiable facts and figures"?

REPLY---Not quite. The claims that were made are deep, and wide ranging. I ask only for where this evidence was sourced. I dont need that for the compass directions of the setting and rising of the sun. If the evidence is there, I will believe it no worries. I am not even saying that this is not the case, merely that I am interested in the source.

QUOTE---DMB wasn’t making a controversial claim; she was stating something which anyone who knows anything about the past is well aware of.

REPLY---Hmmm, I must be dumb then I am aware of "progress", and how the fortunates like us have a good life. What I am not aware of is....

increased prosperity? How is this calculated?
health? is this life span?
peace? mental peace? world peace?
religious tolerance? hmmm, this site would contradict that (JOKE)