Dianna

Read Joseph Perkins' column, Separating God from Country, in the San Diego Union-Tribune.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/o...e2perkins.html

Please email Mr. Perkins at joseph.perkins@uniontrib.com about his column. If you are a parent, you might point out to him that while Mr. Newdow may not live up to his standard of good parenting, millions of other non-religious Americans surely do and we are glad to have had Mr. Newdow speak up for our rights.

If you are well-versed in early American history, you might straighten Mr. Perkins out regarding the Deists and explain that "god-fearing" had little to do with their beliefs.

If you care to, you might express your outrage, if not utter bafflement, that Mr. Perkins would make the claim that a minority in this country should be subjected to the religious beliefs of the majority.

You might also let Mr. Perkins know that it isn't only atheists who demand that state and church be separate; millions of religious people (Americans United for the Separation of Church and State was founded by a Christian) also understand the necessity of keeping religion out of government.

Thanks,
Dianna
www.geocities.com/atheistview

dangin

what a tool.

simian

Oh look, another moron who say "god belongs in the pledge because I believe in him, and need the government to say all americans believe in him, too." Nothing at all was said about what (if anything) was actually wrong with the legal decision.

Simian

Stephen Maturin

Thanks for the heads-up, Dianna. You'd think reading the same tired drivel over and over would make it slightly easier to stomach, but no.

You've gotta give Perkins credit, though. He managed to cram the entire anti-Newdow party line into a single editorial. Not just a plop or two, but the whole pile. I mean, this editorial's got it all: personal attacks on Newdow; the "notoriously liberal" Ninth Circuit; gross misrepresentation of what the court actually held; the "atheist agenda"; booting God out of schools; "it's freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion"; Jebus-loving founding fathers; much wringing of hands over how the godly are so terribly put-upon in contemporary America; the whole shootin' match.

Smokin' Joe sez:

Well, at least he got the three-judge part right. Close but no gravy fries on the holding, though.

[Worf] You must think me a fool to make your lies so transparent! [/Worf]

Wasn't no eleven-member panel, and didn't nobody "reaffirm" dick. In truth, what the Ninth Circuit did in February was vote NOT to have the case reheard by an eleven-judge en banc panel. Word around the campfire is that some of the judges who voted against a rehearing did so in hopes of the Supreme Court taking the case and slam-dunking the original decision definitively. Maybe the Ninth Circuit isn't so monolithically "liberal" after all. Oh, and speaking of the original decision, Mr. Perkins fails to mention that the majority opinion was modified rather substantially.

*bzzzzzzzzt* Oh, I'm sorry, that's incorrect. But thank you for playing Let's Rewrite Constitutional Law!

Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38, 52-54 (1985) (emphasis added, noted omitted).

Let's set aside for a moment all the squabbling about what the founders really believed. Such exercises are pointless for any number of reasons, and they can never get the accomodationists where they want to go.

My maternal grandfather was a first-rate woodcarver. He once carved this amazingly cool miniature locomotive. Since ol' Grandpa Bill was a Christian, it must have been a Christian locomotive, right? :banghead:

faust

Stephen,
Please tell me you emailed that to him! Nice rebuttal. It also grabbed my attention that he wasn't just going at it from one particular issue, he systematically handed out every line from the "we hate atheists" handbook.

If anyone who reads that monologue and doesn't notice a major underlying theme of disrespect, disgust, and demeaning tone towards full fledged AMERICAN CITIZENS who lack belief in <insert diety here>, then they are as blind as Tiberius but w/o the insight.

SLD

I guess what really got me in the article was the implication that we freethinkers want to impose our minority views on the rest of the school going kids when in fact, it is just the opposite. By forcing kids to recite that we are a nation under God you are forcing religion down their throats. It's so typical of fundies, whenever they can't use the government to force religion on us, they scream that we are forcing atheism on them as if that were the only alternative. Neutrality by the government is the equivalent of forcing atheism down kids throats?



What an effing moron.

:banghead: :banghead:

SLD

GaryP

I whipped this off to Mr. Perkins just now;


Mr. Perkins;

As a citizen who asked for an equal opportunity to display an Atheist symbol along with my city's Nativity scene, I greatly resent sentiments such as the ones you expressed in your recent column.

This country was not formed "under God" but is rather a great experiment in secular government. Our founders were well aware of the hazards of govt. being mixed up in religion.

After more than 225 years, I would hope that we could agree that this experiment is working fine for both religious and non-religious.

By all surveys which I have seen, Americans consider themselves to be highly religious and attend church with much greater regularity than almost any other country. And people like me are free to complain without fear (at least, not too much) that somebody will do physical harm to us "infidels".

If you wish to join and/or view a discussion of your column, please go to http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=53018

Sincerely,
GaryP
Lancaster, OH 43130

PS I found out first hand all about Christian forbearance when I asked for the above mentioned equality. My family was bombarded for about two weeks with all sorts of vitriolic messages. One was even a death threat!

Christians in my city were so used to having only their religion recognized on public property, that they apparently felt an entitlement to govt. approval and a tacit DIS-approval for everyone else's beliefs (or lack of same). I think it was a great case study in why separation is so important to ALL Americans.

Dianna

Thanks to everyone who has responded to Mr. Perkins. I think this is a wonderful use for this forum and I hope we all keep it up.

Dianna.