Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GaryP · 08-06-2003, 05:23 AM

On a recent car trip to FL I was assaulted by several "Choose Life" license plates.

For you FL folks, can you buy "Pro-Choice" plates if you choose?

If not, how can the state offer one side of the most contentious political issue of the last 40 years or more and not the other?

Jewel · 08-06-2003, 09:14 AM

I found information on creating specialty plates in Florida at www.sunshinestate.com

Quote:

Application Requirements

Legislation must be enacted to establish a new specialty license plate design. Proposals for specialty license plates may only be considered by the legislature upon compliance with the following conditions and requirements. An organization, that seeks to establish a new specialty license plate, for which an annual use fee is to be charged, must submit to the department:

A letter of request for the specialty license plate describing the proposed specialty license plate in general terms. The letter must include the purpose for creating the specialty license plate.

The results of a scientific sample survey of 15,000 or more registered vehicle owners or registrants who state their intent to purchase the proposed specialty license plate. The sample survey must be performed independently of the requestor and be conducted by a organization that does sample surveys as a normal course of business. Additional prequisites regarding the survey and its content are outlined.

An application fee of $60,000, payable to the Division of Motor Vehicles, to defray the department's cost for reviewing the application and developing the specialty license plate. If the specialty license plate requested by the organization is not approved by the legislature, the application fee shall be refunded to the requesting organization.

A marketing strategy outlining short-term and long-term marketing plans for the proposed specialty license plate. The marketing strategy must also include a financial analysis outlining the anticipated revenues and the planned expenditures of the revenues to be derived from the sale of the proposed specialty license plates.

NOTE: These application requirements must be met at least 90 days before the convening of the next regular session of the legislature.

From there it goes through Florida State legislature. My guess is that if they did not approve a Pro Choice plate (assuming all other requirements were met) then there would be gounds for a lawsuit.

Peregrine · 08-06-2003, 03:04 PM

Here is the top 10 0f 2002 plates in FL.

1. Protect the Panther 108,826
2. Save the Manatee 95,406
3. University of Florida 83,849
4. Protect Wild Dolphins 78,948
5. Florida State University 70,369
6. Help Sea Turtles Survive 64,391
7. Challenger 55,016
8. Support Education 39,272
9. Choose Life 35,618

In the office where I got my plate, the Choose Life was taken down from the wall of all the samples of the plates you can get (and there are a couple dozen, I have the Manatee).

A florida court has already ruled on a challenge to the plate, ruling in favor of the government. Currently there is a federal challenge based on the distribution of funds. The state law forbids funds from the sale of the plate to go to any abortion activity. Also the funds go to Choose Life for them to disperse and in some counties this has resulted in the money going to religous organizations.

Toto · 08-06-2003, 03:11 PM

Previous thread on Louisiana plates

enfant terrible · 08-07-2003, 12:41 PM

I agree with Jewel's conclusion. It seems perfectly clean constitutionally. I do think it is a bad policy to have license plates dealing with controversial issues (may provoke road rage), but that is for the legislators to decide.

truelies · 08-09-2003, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by enfant terrible
I agree with Jewel's conclusion. It seems perfectly clean constitutionally. I do think it is a bad policy to have license plates dealing with controversial issues (may provoke road rage), but that is for the legislators to decide.

I would question the idea of restricting the freedom of some to express an opinion because it might provoke others to an inexcusible state of anger. Far better to punish the road rage in such a manner that no one would dare let their emotions get that far out of control. Feel all the rage you want, but act upon it and the State has a duty to make you suffer.

enfant terrible · 08-09-2003, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by truelies
I would question the idea of restricting the freedom of some to express an opinion because it might provoke others to an inexcusible state of anger.

Bzzzzzzt! Wrong! License plates have nothing to do with "freedom to express opinion". A license plate is not the car owner's property, it is the state's property. You have as much right to express your opinion on a license plate as to write grafitti on the state government building. (Of course, the state can choose to permit you to do it, in which case your grafitti becomes a mural - just like it can issue a special license plate.)

Moreover, the state may restrict expression even on your own property, as long as the restriction is "narrowly tailored" and not content-based. For example, if the state found, in a reasonable manner, that bumper stickers cause a substantial number of traffic accidents (by distracting on enraging other drivers), it could ban all bumper stickers. It could not ban only some of them, based on content, but even here there are exceptions: banning "obscene" stickers only would probably still pass constitutional muster in courts.

StrictSeparationist · 08-09-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by enfant terrible
Bzzzzzzt! Wrong! License plates have nothing to do with "freedom to express opinion". A license plate is not the car owner's property, it is the state's property. You have as much right to express your opinion on a license plate as to write grafitti on the state government building. (Of course, the state can choose to permit you to do it, in which case your grafitti becomes a mural - just like it can issue a special license plate.)

Moreover, the state may restrict expression even on your own property, as long as the restriction is "narrowly tailored" and not content-based. For example, if the state found, in a reasonable manner, that bumper stickers cause a substantial number of traffic accidents (by distracting on enraging other drivers), it could ban all bumper stickers. It could not ban only some of them, based on content, but even here there are exceptions: banning "obscene" stickers only would probably still pass constitutional muster in courts.

I think your hypothetical bumper sticker banning scenario might well run afoul of the Supreme Court decision in Ladue v. Gillio, 512 U.S. 43 (1994), or, if it were justified on the grounds of keeping the roads completely free of distracting messages, it might be in violation of Airport Commissioners v. Jews for Jesus, 482 U.S. 569 (1987). The latter extrapolation is perhaps more questionable, because the state's interest in preventing traffic accidents is probably more substantial than whatever interest L.A. alleged in Airport Commissioners (the opinion doesn't say what the interest was). Nevertheless, I am reasonably confident that bumper stickers remain protected under Ladue from a complete content-neutral ban.

Peregrine · 08-09-2003, 07:03 PM

Enfant is right.

The issue is equal access to a forum. When the state issued the "Choose Life" plates, they opened a forum and constitutionally cannot restrict other expressions in that forum. The Florida court that ruled in favor of the plate said that the plantiffs did not try to get a plate with a competing message approved by the legislature, therefore, they did not have any standing. Constitutionally, the Florida legislature has created a situation where they cannot (though they will if given the chance) reject a plate voicing a viewpoint contrary to the "Choose Life" plate.

This is why the federal challenge is based on the disbursement of funds raised from selling the plate. The funds are given to the quasi-government organization, Choose-Like.Org, who then doles out the moneys to religious organizations, apparently to date this includes only xian organizations.

truelies · 08-10-2003, 07:53 AM

It amazes me that anybody could be so insecure in their beliefs that they just can't bear to look at a License Plate with a contrary message....................and ACTUALLY think that potential Road rage is a reason to censor the messages. Come on people an individual who is that unable to control their emotions should not even be allowed on the Streets at the wheel of a vehicle.

08-06-2003, 05:23 AM	#1
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Choose Life plates? On a recent car trip to FL I was assaulted by several "Choose Life" license plates. For you FL folks, can you buy "Pro-Choice" plates if you choose? If not, how can the state offer one side of the most contentious political issue of the last 40 years or more and not the other?

08-06-2003, 03:04 PM	#3
Peregrine Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 385	Just moved to FL Here is the top 10 0f 2002 plates in FL. 1. Protect the Panther 108,826 2. Save the Manatee 95,406 3. University of Florida 83,849 4. Protect Wild Dolphins 78,948 5. Florida State University 70,369 6. Help Sea Turtles Survive 64,391 7. Challenger 55,016 8. Support Education 39,272 9. Choose Life 35,618 In the office where I got my plate, the Choose Life was taken down from the wall of all the samples of the plates you can get (and there are a couple dozen, I have the Manatee). A florida court has already ruled on a challenge to the plate, ruling in favor of the government. Currently there is a federal challenge based on the distribution of funds. The state law forbids funds from the sale of the plate to go to any abortion activity. Also the funds go to Choose Life for them to disperse and in some counties this has resulted in the money going to religous organizations.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-06-2003, 03:11 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Previous thread on Louisiana plates

08-07-2003, 12:41 PM	#5
enfant terrible Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 276	I agree with Jewel's conclusion. It seems perfectly clean constitutionally. I do think it is a bad policy to have license plates dealing with controversial issues (may provoke road rage), but that is for the legislators to decide.

08-09-2003, 07:03 PM	#9
Peregrine Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 385	Enfant is right. The issue is equal access to a forum. When the state issued the "Choose Life" plates, they opened a forum and constitutionally cannot restrict other expressions in that forum. The Florida court that ruled in favor of the plate said that the plantiffs did not try to get a plate with a competing message approved by the legislature, therefore, they did not have any standing. Constitutionally, the Florida legislature has created a situation where they cannot (though they will if given the chance) reject a plate voicing a viewpoint contrary to the "Choose Life" plate. This is why the federal challenge is based on the disbursement of funds raised from selling the plate. The funds are given to the quasi-government organization, Choose-Like.Org, who then doles out the moneys to religious organizations, apparently to date this includes only xian organizations.

08-10-2003, 07:53 AM	#10
truelies Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kansas Posts: 529	It amazes me that anybody could be so insecure in their beliefs that they just can't bear to look at a License Plate with a contrary message....................and ACTUALLY think that potential Road rage is a reason to censor the messages. Come on people an individual who is that unable to control their emotions should not even be allowed on the Streets at the wheel of a vehicle.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.