Freethought & Rationalism Archive

kalamasutta · 12-01-2002, 03:24 PM

Just as a fun thing - and because I am having to stay up late waiting for a phone-call - I would just like to ask any Dharma friends out there just how "Buddhist" are the following......

W.H.Auden............"For the garden is the only place there is, but we shall not find it until we have searched everywhere and found nowhere that is not a desert."

T.S.Eliot........"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."

Meister Eckhart....."Nothing that knowledge can grasp, or desire can want, is God. Where knowledge and desire end, there is darkness, and there God shines."

12-01-2002, 10:36 PM

W.H.Auden............"For the garden is the only place there is, but we shall not find it until we have searched everywhere and found nowhere that is not a desert."

My reply : When you stop trying to find the Garden, you will find it.

T.S.Eliot........"We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time."

My reply : You will not know yourself till you look at everything else and find your own place among everything, only then you will see yourself for who you are.

Meister Eckhart....."Nothing that knowledge can grasp, or desire can want, is God. Where knowledge and desire end, there is darkness, and there God shines."

My reply : When a person stop craving for ALL that is to crave for (even salvation), only then the Truth will be revealed to him.

I guess that what it meant to me.

kalamasutta · 12-02-2002, 12:10 AM

Seraphim, thanks for your answer. Whatever the full context of the original quotes, taken just as they are they do seem very Buddhist to me....(though perhaps "truth" instead of "God" in the Eckhart verse?)

I think you have captured the heart of the words - or at least, one of the hearts! You have jogged a memory of a commentary I read on a verse from Luke's gospel......."When will the Kingdom of God come?" A Zen teacher commented: "Ordinary mind is the Tao. If you turn toward it, you turn away from it".

(And the T.S.Eliot verse always makes me think of the "mountains becoming mountains again" of Zen fame............)

12-02-2002, 12:21 AM

"Seraphim, thanks for your answer. Whatever the full context of the original quotes, taken just as they are they do seem very Buddhist to me....(though perhaps "truth" instead of "God" in the Eckhart verse?)"

My reply : The word "God" is our own creation. Don't be binded by words of humans till you don't even see what is been revealed before you. Remember - NOTHING that knowledge gasped, or desire can want is God".

It seems to many have their own picture of what God is like that when "God" to appear to them (or that they felt it), they usually think it is just another illusion created by the mind.

"I think you have captured the heart of the words - or at least, one of the hearts! You have jogged a memory of a commentary I read on a verse from Luke's gospel......."When will the Kingdom of God come?" A Zen teacher commented: "Ordinary mind is the Tao. If you turn toward it, you turn away from it".

(And the T.S.Eliot verse always makes me think of the "mountains becoming mountains again" of Zen fame............)"

My reply : Did I? Don't get me wrong but I didn't explore any words or sayings, I just said what I felt was been described by those words.

Hmmm ... Maybe that is what T. S Eliot said about exploring ... when you finish exploring everything that is need to explore and return back to where you start, you will see that place as new. Maybe he meant that when you look at everything else from your own perspective, analyze it with an open mind, and finally compare it with your own knowledge, you will find new meaning toward what you know but didn't reliazed before.

dostf · 12-02-2002, 04:52 PM

- Riddles and paradox are spoken by those who know what is not known, but are unable to live, hence bringing forth confusion where clarity is most needed.........(dostf)

Be seeing you...

12-02-2002, 04:56 PM

"- Riddles and paradox are spoken by those who know what is not known, but are unable to live, hence bringing forth confusion where clarity is most needed.........(dostf)"

My reply : All the confusions that you feel is in your own state of mind, remove them by seeking nothing and everything will be clear as daylight.

dostf · 12-02-2002, 06:34 PM

Seraphim:

- There is no "way", for those that have walked before us do not stand where we are now.
- Seek to know all, for it is the first step to nothingness. Only then will shadows in the sunlight give way.

Be seeing you...

12-02-2002, 07:33 PM

"- There is no "way", for those that have walked before us do not stand where we are now."

My reply : And where do you stand? How far have you walked? You stand where you want to stand for you do not know those who walked before you. By assuming that you have walked as far (or more) that those who walked before you, you are assuming that you could know more.

"- Seek to know all, for it is the first step to nothingness. Only then will shadows in the sunlight give way.

My reply : Seek to know ALL? Hmph ... How arrogant is a human to think that he will know ALL.
The "shadows in the sunlight" only exist because of your eyes been clouded by emotions and human limitations.

dostf · 12-02-2002, 08:42 PM

Seraphim:

- All things move forward and progress, lest they die. The past is dead and but an illusion made of anothers dreams.
- Know what is known, for each one of us harbours that which is not true
- To be HUMAN is no limitation, for both shadow and sun are servant to those eyes

Be seeing you...

12-02-2002, 11:02 PM

"- All things move forward and progress, lest they die. The past is dead and but an illusion made of anothers dreams."

My reply : Everyone who forgets his past eventually will lose something of himself.
A person is nothing with his shadow and his past is his shadow. Look behind you and think again WHY you have did as you did and WHY you have said of what you say, and maybe you will find a better yourself to present to the future.

"- Know what is known, for each one of us harbours that which is not true "

My reply : Untrue. Each of us harbour what we WISHED to be true. Truth for us is what we think we know, not what we don't know.

"- To be HUMAN is no limitation, for both shadow and sun are servant to those eyes"

My reply : Human is the limitation of the Soul. Governed by Emotions, Human forgets to listen to his Soul so much that he will wonder whether there is one.
One can FEEL the shadow and the Sun by his sense alone, he doesn't need an eye to see the shadows or the sun.

12-01-2002, 03:24 PM	#1
kalamasutta Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: England Posts: 34	Just how "Buddhist" are these...........? Just as a fun thing - and because I am having to stay up late waiting for a phone-call - I would just like to ask any Dharma friends out there just how "Buddhist" are the following...... W.H.Auden............"For the garden is the only place there is, but we shall not find it until we have searched everywhere and found nowhere that is not a desert." T.S.Eliot........"We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time." Meister Eckhart....."Nothing that knowledge can grasp, or desire can want, is God. Where knowledge and desire end, there is darkness, and there God shines."

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12-01-2002, 10:36 PM	#2
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	W.H.Auden............"For the garden is the only place there is, but we shall not find it until we have searched everywhere and found nowhere that is not a desert." My reply : When you stop trying to find the Garden, you will find it. T.S.Eliot........"We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time." My reply : You will not know yourself till you look at everything else and find your own place among everything, only then you will see yourself for who you are. Meister Eckhart....."Nothing that knowledge can grasp, or desire can want, is God. Where knowledge and desire end, there is darkness, and there God shines." My reply : When a person stop craving for ALL that is to crave for (even salvation), only then the Truth will be revealed to him. I guess that what it meant to me.

12-02-2002, 12:10 AM	#3
kalamasutta Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: England Posts: 34	Seraphim, thanks for your answer. Whatever the full context of the original quotes, taken just as they are they do seem very Buddhist to me....(though perhaps "truth" instead of "God" in the Eckhart verse?) I think you have captured the heart of the words - or at least, one of the hearts! You have jogged a memory of a commentary I read on a verse from Luke's gospel......."When will the Kingdom of God come?" A Zen teacher commented: "Ordinary mind is the Tao. If you turn toward it, you turn away from it". (And the T.S.Eliot verse always makes me think of the "mountains becoming mountains again" of Zen fame............)

12-02-2002, 12:21 AM	#4
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"Seraphim, thanks for your answer. Whatever the full context of the original quotes, taken just as they are they do seem very Buddhist to me....(though perhaps "truth" instead of "God" in the Eckhart verse?)" My reply : The word "God" is our own creation. Don't be binded by words of humans till you don't even see what is been revealed before you. Remember - NOTHING that knowledge gasped, or desire can want is God". It seems to many have their own picture of what God is like that when "God" to appear to them (or that they felt it), they usually think it is just another illusion created by the mind. "I think you have captured the heart of the words - or at least, one of the hearts! You have jogged a memory of a commentary I read on a verse from Luke's gospel......."When will the Kingdom of God come?" A Zen teacher commented: "Ordinary mind is the Tao. If you turn toward it, you turn away from it". (And the T.S.Eliot verse always makes me think of the "mountains becoming mountains again" of Zen fame............)" My reply : Did I? Don't get me wrong but I didn't explore any words or sayings, I just said what I felt was been described by those words. Hmmm ... Maybe that is what T. S Eliot said about exploring ... when you finish exploring everything that is need to explore and return back to where you start, you will see that place as new. Maybe he meant that when you look at everything else from your own perspective, analyze it with an open mind, and finally compare it with your own knowledge, you will find new meaning toward what you know but didn't reliazed before.

12-02-2002, 04:52 PM	#5
dostf Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto canada Posts: 498	- Riddles and paradox are spoken by those who know what is not known, but are unable to live, hence bringing forth confusion where clarity is most needed.........(dostf) Be seeing you...

12-02-2002, 04:56 PM	#6
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"- Riddles and paradox are spoken by those who know what is not known, but are unable to live, hence bringing forth confusion where clarity is most needed.........(dostf)" My reply : All the confusions that you feel is in your own state of mind, remove them by seeking nothing and everything will be clear as daylight.

12-02-2002, 06:34 PM	#7
dostf Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto canada Posts: 498	Seraphim: - There is no "way", for those that have walked before us do not stand where we are now. - Seek to know all, for it is the first step to nothingness. Only then will shadows in the sunlight give way. Be seeing you...

12-02-2002, 07:33 PM	#8
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"- There is no "way", for those that have walked before us do not stand where we are now." My reply : And where do you stand? How far have you walked? You stand where you want to stand for you do not know those who walked before you. By assuming that you have walked as far (or more) that those who walked before you, you are assuming that you could know more. "- Seek to know all, for it is the first step to nothingness. Only then will shadows in the sunlight give way. My reply : Seek to know ALL? Hmph ... How arrogant is a human to think that he will know ALL. The "shadows in the sunlight" only exist because of your eyes been clouded by emotions and human limitations.

12-02-2002, 08:42 PM	#9
dostf Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: toronto canada Posts: 498	Seraphim: - All things move forward and progress, lest they die. The past is dead and but an illusion made of anothers dreams. - Know what is known, for each one of us harbours that which is not true - To be HUMAN is no limitation, for both shadow and sun are servant to those eyes Be seeing you...

12-02-2002, 11:02 PM	#10
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	"- All things move forward and progress, lest they die. The past is dead and but an illusion made of anothers dreams." My reply : Everyone who forgets his past eventually will lose something of himself. A person is nothing with his shadow and his past is his shadow. Look behind you and think again WHY you have did as you did and WHY you have said of what you say, and maybe you will find a better yourself to present to the future. "- Know what is known, for each one of us harbours that which is not true " My reply : Untrue. Each of us harbour what we WISHED to be true. Truth for us is what we think we know, not what we don't know. "- To be HUMAN is no limitation, for both shadow and sun are servant to those eyes" My reply : Human is the limitation of the Soul. Governed by Emotions, Human forgets to listen to his Soul so much that he will wonder whether there is one. One can FEEL the shadow and the Sun by his sense alone, he doesn't need an eye to see the shadows or the sun.

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