ManM

brighid,
Deeds, by far.

Oh, and that is 'M an M'.

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: ManM ]</p>

Amos

You're right and please accept my apology for that.

brighid

So, I would hope you would agree that if a priest(s) and the Catholic Church never actually get up on a pulpit and decree something so vile as this abuse is okay in any specific terms, BUT their actions speak quite loudly that it is OK, that in fact they are teaching by their deeds what is acceptable in the eyes of the Church and the God that guides them. Furthermore, as to the sinning, child-molesting, soul-sucking, priests … they BROKE their VOWS of celibacy and therefore SHOULD be excommunicated, defrocked and thrown in jail to rot. This would be justice: Father Geoghan, now the ass bitch for Bubba, one of the children he had previously raped now turned criminal and presently his cellmate, spends the next 20 years at the receiving end of rape and molestation by a man bigger and stronger then himself. Unfortunately those sick, twisted bastards won’t get included in the general population because criminals don’t take kindly to child rapists. Even the criminally insane can see that what these men (and the Church) does is reprehensible. Those priests will be afforded more protection then those children ever were. I forgive the sick fucks, but that doesn’t absolve them of the punishment they deserve for committing a crime and breaking their sacred vows.

So, can you now see the hypocrisy despite the traditions and dogma? I would also think the greater threat to the Church would be pedophilic priests that not only destroy the trust young children have in this god, but in adults and authority in general and commit criminal acts then women who do the work of priests ever could! Don’t you? Hmmmmm…. Females who have a very low instance of raping children, commit less crime, generally show more compassion, tolerance, nurturing and love (all such allegedly “Christlike” qualities) or … keep things they way they are? Hmmmmm… logic or dogma? Perhaps this is one of the myriad reasons I am an atheist … I don’t have to abide by immoral, illogical traditions and dogmas that serve no purpose then to continue to support a corrupt, criminal, hypocritical structure of patriarchy that doesn’t even have a glimmer of godliness!

Brighid

ManM

Splashing Colours Of Whimsy,
Can you please provide me with a decree, sermon, or anything that shows the Catholic Church officially endorses child molestation?

How is forgiveness an endorsement? There would be no need for forgiveness if they endorsed the behavior... Your argument makes no sense. Or are you calling them hypocrites for not crucifying their sinners? They would be more hypocritical if they didn't forgive sinners…

brighid

Forgiving the sin or the crime should not absolve someone of the consequences of their actions!

B

daemon

In a way, we can thank these women for bravely hastening the inevitable dissolution of the Roman Catholic Church.

As it stands today, the Church is disintegrating. The shortage of priests has gotten to the point where some priests say masses at 5 or more different parishes per weekend because there are so few to go around. My mother can remember when it was common to have multiple priests in a single parish. The priesthood is becoming less and less valued a profession, and the recent scandals have damaged--perhaps irreparably--the reputation of priests in general, at least in America.

Their only real hope of seeing any sort of increase in the priesthood is to change the requirements. Married priests seem possible, but at the same time, their incredibly dogmatic and unreasoned opposition to women priests seems indicative of a terrible resistance to change. This latest incident just sets more precedence against change, and the Church never admits to doctinal failure. They have been, somewhat amusingly, hedging their bets; Cardinal Ratzinger (head of the Curia, quite literally the modern Inquisition, and arguably one of the nastiest and most powerful men in the RCC) pushed for declaring the pope's last pronouncement on the unacceptability of women priests as ex cathedra (infallible), but was carefully hushed up. Nonetheless, I doubt any change will be allowed; the Church is trending away from the modernism of the Vatican II council, and veering towards traditionalism. It is a dying Church, full of rotting romanticism for a time that never was, trusting in the providence of a figment of their collective imaginations.

I only hope that the thrashing of the RCC's corpse and the ensuing schisms do no harm to the rest of the world. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see an American Catholic Church--composed of most of the dioceses in the US--within the next 20 years.

The women have my sympathy, but also my thanks for allowing the Church a wonderful opportunity to shoot itself in the foot.

bonduca

I disagree. I think that when determining who is fit to serve in this capacity, common sense is looking at what is in the mind and the heart, not the underpants.

Clarice

First, is it actually Catholic doctrine that the priest represents Jesus, and that this is the reason for the males-only rule? I don't remember that from CCD.

Now, as far as forgiveness. My understanding of Catholic doctrine on this is that you can be forgiven for any sin, unless you are asking for forgiveness while knowing you're going to continue doing it. For example, my FIL is not welcome at church because he is divorced and remarried. Presumably, if he left his second wife and remained celibate (or went back to his first wife), he could receive absolution.

I don't see how the individuals and the hierarchy involved in the sexual assault of children, its cover-up, and the facilitation of its continuation merit forgiveness, since they never willingly stopped this activity. Indeed, they continue to perpetuate it with their obfuscation and blaming of the victims.

Finally, the discussion of penis/no-penis issues in the church lead me to ask, how does the church treat intersexual children? Do you undergo a physical examination upon applying, do they test to make sure you have a Y chromosome?

bonduca

Clarice, I can only say:

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Bible Humper

Take a look at the many news articles regarding the church's recent discussions regarding paedophilia in the priesthood. They have said straight out that they will only defrock priests that become "notorious", if the crime was stealing money from the church instead, though, they would all have shit themselves damning the perpetrators to hell instead of forgiving them.

The message? "Don't get caught, priest, besides that who gives a fuck?"


Well, it's no surprise that they don't come out and say "we don't mind if the priests abuse your boys because it is that opportunity that attracted half of our priests to the priesthood in the first place" since they rely on a large loyal flock for their wealth.

Paedophilia has been a church tradition for so long that they have little hope of exorcising it even if they wanted to.

ROFL, is this the same church we're talking about?
Would they forgive a gay member of their congregation and leave him alone for his homosexuality that harms nobody?