Hello!

First of all, I know very little about Wicca, other than that it is supposedly quite ancient. The thing is, I read somewhere (of course, I can't remember where - Skeptic, maybe?)that Wicca has its roots in Victorian England and is therefore no older than 150 years.

Does anyone know if this last statement is correct/accurate/apt?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul

Just go to http://www.religioustolerance.com/ as they have plenty of information there. Oh, here's another good site here. They were a derivation from Celtic Druidism. They're about 150 years old though Celtic Druidism was around for a very long time.

[This message has been edited by Sephiroth (edited April 11, 2001).]

Bill

One of the oldest of the "modern" Wiccan groups in the USA is the Covenant of the Goddess, which keeps a great deal of information on their About Witchcraft page.

Frankly, Wicca can be virtually indistinguishable from atheism, or perhaps pantheism. Try out this quote from the above page: Note that the phrase "immanent life force" in the above essentially denies transcendence: In other words, their version of Wicca essentially makes up a mystical religion about a "reality-based" worldview.

== Bill

Wow. You sure do give them a lot of credit.

I think they are just as superstitious as Chrsitians. They are into all sorts of supernatural bunk. They combine incompatible ideas from various sources and refuse to acknowledge that they are incompatible. They do this do defining things so poorly and refraining from rational and skeptical judgement.

At one of our philosophical lectures our speaker was a Prof of World Religions. Her topic wasn't Wicca but she went into a sidebar discussion during her lecture to explain that Wiccans don't have any historical standing for their beliefs. That is, they claim a connection to old Celtic traditions but she said she can find no evidence that this claim is actually true. I wish she had said more about it and I wish I had more information about her viewpoint of their history.

DC
http://www.digitalchicken.net

Wicca isn't even that old. It can definitively be traced back to the writings and work of Gerald Gardner, a retired British civil servant, from the 1930's through the 1950's. However, the roots of the "neo-Pagan" movement lie in the Romantic literary movement of the 19th century, traditions and symbolism of Freemasonry and related groups (such as several Anglo "Druid" fraternal clubs), and the Victorian scholarly fascination with myth and folklore.

For a readable historians view on the origins of Wicca, see Ronald Hutton's Triumph of the Moon. For some in-depth reviews of his book and the outline of the history of Wicca see here, here, or here.

Stryder

[This message has been edited by stryder2112 (edited April 12, 2001).]

Thanks to everyone for your responses. Although Wicca has had no impact on my life whatsoever, I've found its arrival (revival?) onto the religion scene intriguing.

This is what I've suspected for awhile; hence my question to this forum.

Thanks again!

Paul

Wicca really depends on the practicioner--- some are the biggest flakes ever born, some are 'book-o-shadow-thumpers' and some are extremely down to earth and practical.

Wicca is only as old as Gardner (1883-1964)--- although he claims he got it from his grandmother, who was one of a group who historically had kep it alive. Strega, an Italian form, can be traced back precisly to the 1700's, and historians interested have found bits of it from the 1400's. Neither predates Christianity, which is what the Wiccans want you to think. And what many of them do.

There is a movement within the Wiccan religion to go back to the 'roots' --- and admiting how young it is, and keeping it real--- less 'fluffy bunnie look at the pink unicorn'. It can be a serious and respectable religion, but it also appeals too well to rebellious teenagers who are really Christian at heart (there is another movement in the religion promoting the combination of Christ and Wicca).

There are also places where honest Wiccans discuss the public view of Wicca (tv, books, etc) and compare it to the real thing. Trish Tedesco (writer, priestess) makes a point of clarifying Wicca for the ignorant masses.

The benefit to Wicca is that it appeals not only to those on the flakey side, but on the verbal side. Court cases and protests have gotten a great deal of religious freedom things pushed through lately, although it annoys me that most of the 'wins' are not worded to include a legitimate disbelief, only a belief in a 'higher power'.

I personally worry that if Wicca were in 'power' (the way Christianity has been), it would be just as stifling and as bickery as Christianity is. I hope not, but I can see the seeds there.

Right now, however, they are tolerant and gentle.

My personal peeve--- that they usurped the term 'witch' and are rewriting history to claim all the witches burned were Wiccan. Intellegent Wiccans will not say this, so feel free to use it as a litmus test when confronted with a witch/Wiccan.



[This message has been edited by jess (edited April 12, 2001).]

A few years ago about 4 months before Holloween, a Wiccan group in my city wanted to use a park for their Halloween ritual. It caused an uproar from fundy pastors who wrote nasty letters to the newspapers condemning the Wiccans as satanic or other classic Xian bad names. The Wiccans were allowed to have their earth worship ritual and the dear fundies prayed on the other side of the two bored cops there.
All I can say is that religions,in all their forms sure are strange. Also the other posters here have said it all about Wicca. It it just a newage religion concocted recently.

Perhaps it is just new age, but I for one am interested in Wicca nonetheless.

What sorts of things go on at Wiccan 'meetings'?

What I find remarkable is that Wicca has exerted itself to the extent where the US army recognizes it as a legitimate religious practice.

I was once told, by a godfearing Texas-bornandbred Chief Petty Officer of the USN no less, that the American military was the "moral backbone" of the United States.
I wonder how he feels about his moral spine now supporting pagans alongside his saints and sinners?

Like Mad Mordigan, I'm interested in what goes on at coven meetings. I trust it's nothing like 'The Wicker Man.'


Paul



[This message has been edited by Ensign Morituri (edited April 12, 2001).]