Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lcb · 08-31-2002, 04:26 PM

There is a place in Bangkok where for about three hundred dollars American a man can have three beautiful of age (but very very young) thai women as his sex servants for several hours.Consenting adults all. Now that's perfectly okay according to secular humanist standards right?

[Edited subject title]

[ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]

Autonemesis · 08-31-2002, 04:29 PM

Depends. Did you enjoy yourself? Did you treat them poorly? You didn't try to weasel out of paying, did you?

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]

lcb · 08-31-2002, 04:36 PM

fair comment King, in my youth I exploited young women sexually based on the superiority of money and their poverty in the third world, please remember I was fairly young myself and knew little better, but I can assure you King that I have spent a lifetime since making it up and redeeming myself in sacrificial acts of faith,hope, and charity , much of it in the third world, but this post is real time, that place is there now, and so the question, is it morally acceptable now among consenting adults? eastern girl meets western boy?

Autonemesis · 08-31-2002, 05:22 PM

Since the sex trade still continues, in Thailand and the US and everywhere else, it appears that there are at least enough adults for whom any moral qualms they may have are insufficient deterrent for them to refrain from engaging the services of a prostitute.

As for whether there is a moral distinction between exploiting an American prostitute at a licensed brothel in Nevada, for instance, and exploiting a (presumed consentual) woman in a 3rd world country for sex, I think the distinction is of the same character as the difference between exploiting an American textile worker and exploting a textile worker in a 3rd world country. From the perspective of the American prostitute, the Thai ladies might be seen as unfairly in competition and drawing business overseas by taking unfair advantage of the lower labor costs that prevail in the developing world.

I don't really care to get into a discussion of whether selling onself for sexual pleasure is more or less degrading than selling onself for the manufacture of refrigerator magnets, or selling oneself for writing software, or selling oneself for other kinds of physical labor, or selling oneself to defend class action lawsuits, or selling onself to defend with force the very social structures that call on all of us to regard moral decisions in light of consent, while pretending that our consent to the system itself is not manufactured by the necessity of survival, but is freely given without coercion. I really don't want to get into it.

Pomp · 08-31-2002, 05:34 PM

lcb,

Consenting adults all.

There's your key statement. Assuming that all parties involved are truly consenting, I personally have no moral qualms about the situation as you describe it. Strictly speaking, I'm probably not a secular humanist, but that's my take.

Of course, it's possible, maybe even likely (I don't know enough about Thailand's economy or culture to judge, really) that the women involved are not really consenting, but rather have no other realistic employment options. In that case, I would probably have some qualms but, as Kind Bud says, it's a tricky call to make...are people who are forced to sell their bodies for sex any more or less exploited than people who are forced to sell their bodies digging ditches? I don't know.

lcb · 08-31-2002, 05:48 PM

the men who travel there should donate their time, money and talents to feed the hungry, heal the sick and comfort widows and orphans. That's what Jesus said to do.Can you imagine the differnece that would have made in the lives of those young girls from l964 to today? the little girls who became doctors and engineers and teachers and the lives changed? all that money spent on brothels and booze, could have beneficially changed the lives of millions.....

Autonemesis · 08-31-2002, 06:03 PM

Yes, they could have. But why do you single out brothels and booze for special attention, instead of computer-rubbish processing plants or tennis shoes?

Queen of Swords · 08-31-2002, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lcb:
the little girls who became doctors and engineers and teachers

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man : she is to keep silent." (1 Timothy 2:12)

lcb · 08-31-2002, 06:14 PM

queen of words, what on earth are you talking about? I thought we were talking about the sin of sexual exploitation and prostitution, or at least the moral implications of same (for those who are non-theists),?

Abacus · 08-31-2002, 06:18 PM

Her point is that according to some interpretations of the bible, women becoming doctors or engineers is a sin. I know many true christians who believe this. Perhaps you should start a thread to discuss this sin?

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Abacus ]

08-31-2002, 04:26 PM	#1
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	Bangkok Thailand sex servants There is a place in Bangkok where for about three hundred dollars American a man can have three beautiful of age (but very very young) thai women as his sex servants for several hours.Consenting adults all. Now that's perfectly okay according to secular humanist standards right? [Edited subject title] [ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: 99Percent ]</p>

08-31-2002, 04:29 PM	#2
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	Depends. Did you enjoy yourself? Did you treat them poorly? You didn't try to weasel out of paying, did you? [ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

08-31-2002, 06:18 PM	#10
Abacus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Dakota Posts: 2,214	Her point is that according to some interpretations of the bible, women becoming doctors or engineers is a sin. I know many true christians who believe this. Perhaps you should start a thread to discuss this sin? [ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Abacus ]</p>

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08-31-2002, 04:36 PM	#3
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	fair comment King, in my youth I exploited young women sexually based on the superiority of money and their poverty in the third world, please remember I was fairly young myself and knew little better, but I can assure you King that I have spent a lifetime since making it up and redeeming myself in sacrificial acts of faith,hope, and charity , much of it in the third world, but this post is real time, that place is there now, and so the question, is it morally acceptable now among consenting adults? eastern girl meets western boy?

08-31-2002, 05:22 PM	#4
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	Since the sex trade still continues, in Thailand and the US and everywhere else, it appears that there are at least enough adults for whom any moral qualms they may have are insufficient deterrent for them to refrain from engaging the services of a prostitute. As for whether there is a moral distinction between exploiting an American prostitute at a licensed brothel in Nevada, for instance, and exploiting a (presumed consentual) woman in a 3rd world country for sex, I think the distinction is of the same character as the difference between exploiting an American textile worker and exploting a textile worker in a 3rd world country. From the perspective of the American prostitute, the Thai ladies might be seen as unfairly in competition and drawing business overseas by taking unfair advantage of the lower labor costs that prevail in the developing world. I don't really care to get into a discussion of whether selling onself for sexual pleasure is more or less degrading than selling onself for the manufacture of refrigerator magnets, or selling oneself for writing software, or selling oneself for other kinds of physical labor, or selling oneself to defend class action lawsuits, or selling onself to defend with force the very social structures that call on all of us to regard moral decisions in light of consent, while pretending that our consent to the system itself is not manufactured by the necessity of survival, but is freely given without coercion. I really don't want to get into it.

08-31-2002, 05:34 PM	#5
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	lcb, Consenting adults all. There's your key statement. Assuming that all parties involved are truly consenting, I personally have no moral qualms about the situation as you describe it. Strictly speaking, I'm probably not a secular humanist, but that's my take. Of course, it's possible, maybe even likely (I don't know enough about Thailand's economy or culture to judge, really) that the women involved are not really consenting, but rather have no other realistic employment options. In that case, I would probably have some qualms but, as Kind Bud says, it's a tricky call to make...are people who are forced to sell their bodies for sex any more or less exploited than people who are forced to sell their bodies digging ditches? I don't know.

08-31-2002, 05:48 PM	#6
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	the men who travel there should donate their time, money and talents to feed the hungry, heal the sick and comfort widows and orphans. That's what Jesus said to do.Can you imagine the differnece that would have made in the lives of those young girls from l964 to today? the little girls who became doctors and engineers and teachers and the lives changed? all that money spent on brothels and booze, could have beneficially changed the lives of millions.....

08-31-2002, 06:03 PM	#7
Autonemesis Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: I've left FRDB for good, due to new WI&P policy Posts: 12,048	Yes, they could have. But why do you single out brothels and booze for special attention, instead of computer-rubbish processing plants or tennis shoes?

08-31-2002, 06:14 PM	#9
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	queen of words, what on earth are you talking about? I thought we were talking about the sin of sexual exploitation and prostitution, or at least the moral implications of same (for those who are non-theists),?

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