Monk

Can christian creationists while attempting to establish that the universe is created divinely also show evidence that its their god and not another that did the creating?

I'm wondering because creationism and christianity seem closely linked,But from arguments ive seen,Even if they did prove the universe is divinely created,I havnt seen them also show arguments or evidence that its their god.

Advocatus Diaboli

There's no empiric way to tell, but you could always play it safe and say that the creator was the Finnish Ukko Ylijumala(the Supreme God).
How could a mere God compete against a Supreme God?

emotional

They usually give the Fall (the fallen state of creation) as evidence for creation by the Biblegod. Thorns, thistles, harmful mutations, diseases, death - all because of the Curse after the Fall of Man, which only the Biblegod, of all creator-gods, did.

http://www.icr.org/pubs/btg-a/btg-112a.htm

For a time, the Fall as explanation for everything evil in the world seemed attractive to me. However, just put a little thought in it and you can see a fundamental misplanning. Let's say God created Adam and Eve without death, and with the blessing to be fruitful and multiply. Let's suppose they hadn't sinned, so they were going to breed like rabbits without death to keep the population at check. How can you sustain a population without death on a planet with limited resources? No death, then, would lead to mass death, excepting a divine miracle. Which is unacceptable, because miracles never happened, never happen, never will happen.

Not to mention the absence of fossils of plant-eating lions needed to back this whole silly theory up...

Oolon Colluphid

What’s even more damaging is a bit of biological research. Especially parasites. The adaptations are truly incredible, let alone the convoluted lifecycles. Everywhere you look at parasites, you see the sort of amazing complexity that is normally (to creationists) the hallmark of design. Try looking up the Acanthocephala (thorny-headed worms) for example. Or the way Toxoplasma manipulates rodent behaviour so as to make it more likely they’ll end up in the bellies of Toxoplasma’s other host, cats. Or the way endoparasites -- any one you care to think of -- evade their hosts’ immune systems.

If these things were not designed by god, where do creationists think these (clearly ‘designed’) features came from? Did the devil do a spot of (uncredited) designing of his own? If they say microevolution, they have no idea of the complexities involved.

Cheers, DT

WinAce

That's more or less what Douglas J. Bender hinted at in my guestbook:

"...and ignoring the fact that in the Christian concept of Creation, the Designer has placed all Creation under bondage to corruption, and that Satan is the "prince" of this world, and has been since the Fall. Cruelty is Satan's specialty."

When I said he was committing heresy for giving Satan creative powers, he replied

"Anyway, I never said that Satan CREATED anything - just "designed" certain things. That is, took prior designs/forms, and corrupted them."

So yes, some of them think Satan designed bad stuff.

Coragyps

Harun Yahya isn't Christian, but he's already done that for them: it was Allah, not YHWH, that did all that creating stuff. And Yahya has better graphics on his website than AiG, too.

Arikay

When in doubt, blame satan.

Hmm, I want a bumper sticker like that.

"I didnt flip you off,
Satan made me do it."

Majestyk

I thought the designer was Slotty Bartflast.... or did he just do fjords?

braces_for_impact

The identity of the supposed creator is irrelevant according to ID'ers (for now), as this is merely an attempt to get a "foot in the door" of the science curiculum. This is done my 'masking' the creationism as a type of science or an 'alternative' theory to evolution. Once this is done, they figure it will then be much easier to bring out the 'secret identity' of this mysterious creator.

Albion

But didn't Phillip Johnson's latest book finger the Christian god as creator? I haven't bought it yet cos I don't buy creationist books new, but that's what I've read in reviews.