andy_d

I've heard Buddhist teachers say on a number of occasions that if ever there were a situation where a Buddhist idea was found to be indisputably false when investigated scientifically, that Buddhists should unreservedly accept the findings of science. In fact, these were the instructions of the historical Buddha himself.

Buddhism uses a similar principle to science, that of observation and test. No idea is held to be above questioning, and nothing is to be taken on faith. Everything is to be weighed and evaluated by the individual using their experience and judgement. Preconceptions and stiff ideas are to be avoided at all costs. In this way Buddhism is, at it's core, seeking a direct, truthful experience of reality.

The scientific method is not anathema to all religions, merely those which require a leap of faith.

leyline

nevertheless andy

in what way has buddhism shown you a different relationship to the physical world and your physical being? I am interested in how the physical relates to the spirit for different people.

emotional

Buddhism can live happily with most of science, including biological evolution (which most religions cannot). However, there is one branch of science that imperils Buddhism, and that is neuroscience. If the material mind theory (mind = physical brain only) is found to be true, then Buddhism must fall apart, because reincarnation won't work.

See also:

http://www.geocities.com/scimah/

I don't like neuroscience much either. However, I hold to the spiritualist doctrine of duplicate body (an astral body existing as a duplicate to the material one), so I don't fear the advances of neuroscience so much - even if cognitive functions are mapped to areas in the brain, this still doesn't imperil my belief in the afterlife.

andy_d

I'd say for me the big change has been an appreciation of the immediacy of the everyday experience of the world.

The mental training of many schools encourages you to be constantly aware of the freshness of what you are experiencing. Even if you're just buttering your toast in the morning, the aim is to be fully aware of doing it. This is because the mere fact that you can experience it reflects the nature of mind, which is the whole point of practicing.

The Buddhist view is that there is not really any difference between the mind and the world. There is no "inside" or "outside". The world you experience simply reflects the qualities of what experiences it.

At least, that's the idea anyway. Like many things in life, it's easier said than done Practice makes perfect.

As for any physical/spirtual conflict: Buddhists, in my experience, are very practical people. They tend to be realists. In fact, the whole point of practice is to experience more reality and less extraneous waffle.

Emotional: Even if neuroscience conclusively destroyed a traditional belief of Buddhism, it shouldn't matter. Buddhism isn't a dogmatic system which purports to have the conclusive, ready-made answer to everything. It isn't an "Instant Truth, just add water!" kind of deal. It merely provides a system of mental training which will enable you to reach the point where the truth is evident to you. It's the vehicle, not the destination.

leyline

hi andy

yes I agree with you that Buddhism does change our relationship to the physical world and our physical bodies in that way. The freshness. As you say, the losing of inner and outer. ….. and I agree that it comes and goes. More impermanence.

Impermanence is quite scary too. What I find odd though is that our modern way of life is so obviously ‘accelerating’ and changing and cycling, and the old authorities have lost so much of their grip on our pyche, that I wonder why Buddhism isn’t more popular. After all Buddhism does give a spiritual reverence to the feeling of being ever changing.

Maybe its something to do with the sexualisation of our bodies by modern culture. It over sexualises the self in a particular way.

emotional

Yes, Buddhism is a vehicle, but it is a vehicle for quite a specific goal. Buddhism doesn't say just that suffering is caused by desires; it says also that one is bound to suffer for eternity doing turns in the Wheel of Reincarnation (samsara), and it gives methods for escaping samsara. Now this concept of samsara is really reincarnation, and it's really a stance upon the real world, a scientific stance. If there is no such thing as reincarnation, then the Buddhist goal of escaping samsara into nirvana goes the way of the imputed sin of Adam and Eve after evolution showed that Adam and Eve never existed.

Religion can live in harmony with science as long as it doesn't make testable real-world claims. When religion does so, it runs the risk of being refuted by the scientific method. Buddhism doesn't make many real-world claims like the Bible's book of Genesis does, but it does make one real-world claim of reincarnation, and there it runs in adversary to science.

leyline

emotional

one can get a deep spiritual relationship with the physical world through buddhism, without believing in reincarnation after 'death'. Reincarnation can also be seen as a rebirth from moment to moment in this life. Personally i never really bothered with life after death reincarnation when i practiced buddhism. The monks and people i met very rarely mentioned it if at all.

However those that believe in life after death to the point of making it an important influence in their lives might see it very differently i agree.

Carol Massey

leyline,

Posts come and go so quickly around here I have a hard time keeping up with them, but I'm glad I caught yours on the fly!

Regarding the supernatural, I think the term is redundant and shy away from using it.

I ascribe to setting limits on my lifestyle, thus making effective use of my ego in the here and now, but my mind roams free and knows that what it can conceive it can acheive, including psychosis.

I consider all claims of the 'supernatural' to be completely within the physical and the natural, including the commonly used term, 'spirit, or spiritual, or mystic, or mystical".

-beings are we of incredible power, but no particular grace.

andy_d

Well, let's be honest here. Who really cares what happens when you die anyway? Until such time as you do, it's pretty irrelevant.

It's certainly not necessary to adopt a belief (and let's face it, it would simply be a belief) in rebirth simply because you were using Buddhist techniques. Escape from Samsara is only one of many possible motivations someone could have for practising. Buddhism still makes sense without rebirth.

This is well O/T now though...

leyline

andy

"Well, let's be honest here. Who really cares what happens when you die anyway? Until such time as you do, it's pretty irrelevant."

lol well for you maybe, but as emotional pointed out some people regard the physical realm as a challenge and an opportunity and a responsibility to higher planes. What they do on this earth is profoundly affected by what they see as coming next. But in our secular 'i want it now' culture, life after death is just too remote.

Carol Massey

"I consider all claims of the 'supernatural' to be completely within the physical and the natural, including the commonly used term, 'spirit, or spiritual, or mystic, or mystical"

do you believe in ghosts? Evidence of incredible power and no particular grace?