Freethought & Rationalism Archive

06-20-2003, 03:39 PM

I don't mean to bombard the forum with Lucid Dreaming posts, but I am interested in how the scientific community has reacted to Lucid Dreaming.

I originally thought that they had accepted it as a reality. However, I did a search at the CSIOP internet site. They turned up no results but linked to the skeptic's dictionary. Their entry on lucid dreaming said that it was most likely not true.

Has there been any general sentiment expressed by the scientific community? I mean, do groups like CSIOP consider lucid dreaming to be on the level on things like ESP or something?

I would consider it very disturbing if they did, and was surprised by the skepdic dictionary's take on the whole thing (although I am kind of sympathetic, given how much pseudo-science and new age nonsense goes hand in hand with many lucid dreamers and books on the subject....)

Thanks,

Kevin

Jinto · 06-20-2003, 03:51 PM

From the Skeptic's Dictionary:

Quote:

Skeptics don't deny that sometimes in our dreams we dream that we are aware that we are dreaming. What they deny is that there is special dream state called the 'lucid state.' The lucid dream is therefore not a gateway to "transcendent consciousness" any more than nightmares are. But LaBerge claims that he has proved the skeptics wrong: emphasis mine

What the skeptics are denying here is not that lucid dreaming exists, but rather that there is any connection to mental health or some kind of higher consciousness. There's a difference.

06-20-2003, 04:11 PM

Hmmmm....I do see what you are saying, Jinto. I think maybe I was confused by something the author said later about it only being possible (and not necessarily a reality)...

I'm not sure though, what the author is saying LaBerge hasn't proved. From what I've read of LaBerge, he doesn't seem to think that Lucid Dreaming is some New Age gateway. He does say dreams can be used by some in such a fashion, but he doesn't seem to believe that it is anymore than brain reactions...at least in the books I have read. I think the skepdic's dictionary is not focusing on what LaBerge write's mostly about and is misrepresenting him a bit.

I will look into it more, though....

Kevin

God Fearing Atheist · 06-20-2003, 08:42 PM

From The Scientific Study of Dreams: Neural Networks, Cognitive Development, and Content Analysis:

Quote:

The phenomenon of becoming aware of a dream while it is ongoing enjoyed a flurry of attention and speculation in the 1980s under the morally toned label of "lucid dreaming," implying a superior or elite status for "lucid dreamers," and efforts were made to link it to meditation and other altered states of consciousness (Gackenbach & Bosveld, 1989; LaBerge, 1985). While often remarked upon in books on dreams in the pre-laboratory era, lucid dreaming could not be studied systematically until it was shown in the laboratory that it occurs during REM (LaBerge, Nagel, Dement, & Zarcone, 1981). Although there have been too few people studied in the laboratory to establish the frequency of lucid dreaming, there are laboratory and non-laboratory studies suggesting that the degree of self-awareness and sense of conscious control can vary greatly from person to person and even within any given lucid dream (Barrett, 1992). However, as Foulkes (1990b, p. 121) notes, much more laboratory work needs to be done concerning "the conditions under which certain kinds of generic and autobiographical knowledge prove to be accessible during dreaming in the service of an ongoing comprehension and evaluation of dream events."

-GFA

Octokun · 06-20-2003, 10:48 PM

I myself have become aware that I'm dreaming in some of my dreams but I don't think it's in any way related to my health or anything spiritual; just the mind at work, and in a truly amazing way.

06-20-2003, 03:39 PM	#1
TheDiddleyMan Guest Posts: n/a	Lucid Dreaming and the Scientific Community I don't mean to bombard the forum with Lucid Dreaming posts, but I am interested in how the scientific community has reacted to Lucid Dreaming. I originally thought that they had accepted it as a reality. However, I did a search at the CSIOP internet site. They turned up no results but linked to the skeptic's dictionary. Their entry on lucid dreaming said that it was most likely not true. Has there been any general sentiment expressed by the scientific community? I mean, do groups like CSIOP consider lucid dreaming to be on the level on things like ESP or something? I would consider it very disturbing if they did, and was surprised by the skepdic dictionary's take on the whole thing (although I am kind of sympathetic, given how much pseudo-science and new age nonsense goes hand in hand with many lucid dreamers and books on the subject....) Thanks, Kevin

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06-20-2003, 04:11 PM	#3
TheDiddleyMan Guest Posts: n/a	Hmmmm....I do see what you are saying, Jinto. I think maybe I was confused by something the author said later about it only being possible (and not necessarily a reality)... I'm not sure though, what the author is saying LaBerge hasn't proved. From what I've read of LaBerge, he doesn't seem to think that Lucid Dreaming is some New Age gateway. He does say dreams can be used by some in such a fashion, but he doesn't seem to believe that it is anymore than brain reactions...at least in the books I have read. I think the skepdic's dictionary is not focusing on what LaBerge write's mostly about and is misrepresenting him a bit. I will look into it more, though.... Kevin

06-20-2003, 10:48 PM	#5
Octokun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 499	I myself have become aware that I'm dreaming in some of my dreams but I don't think it's in any way related to my health or anything spiritual; just the mind at work, and in a truly amazing way.

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