Tusitala

I'm not seeking arguments here, but feel free to give your considered opinions.

I work with a presbyterian fundy young-earther who gets those creation 'science' mags. We have had several 'discussions' that I try to keep as civil as possible. We agree to disagree. Many of you will have experienced the frustration of trying to reason with someone that won't consider the other side of the coin, so to speak.

The guy is a really good and caring human being, and I like and respect him for that.

Sometimes I punch little holes in the armour, but I'm restrained from doing any serious damage because I'm conscious of his faith being the cornerstone of his life.

For so many people around the world, faith gives hope for an afterlife. If we destroy that hope, what will become of these people?

Cheers,
Tusi

CaptainDave

That's a good question. I have personal experience with it.

I worked with a person 10 years ago who was strongly Christian. Despite our differences, we became close. We had some discussions on religion but neither tried to convert the other.

We were both in tha Air Force during the Gulf War. At one point, a Christian fundy we worked with was assigned to go to the gulf. He tried everything he could to get out of it. A non-religious (unsaved)person voluteered to take his place. This single incident got my friend to thinking. He started looking for a correlation between religious belief and good behavior - and vise versa. He didn't find it. He confided in me that he was begining to fear he might be a tremendous fool, sacraficing much in this life for the promise of heaven. He lost his faith eventually and bacame a poorer person because of it. He was much more likable as a Christian than a skeptic.

If you find somebody who is Christian and is well behaved and does not try to force their views on other people, I vote to let them be.

Paddy

For many people, faith also inhibits their everyday lives. Many faiths require gratuitous sacrifice on the behalf of the follower. As a result of their faith, people are not able to experience 'life', nor are they able to express themselves fully as human beings. We are only here for a short time and we need to make the most of it...f**k the 'afterlife'.

Not only do some faiths inhibit the follower, they are the cause of much destruction. Take your radical, militant islamic for example, His/her belief in the notion that dying during a holy war will gain favour with his/her god is the root cause of much destruction and human suffering. Should we encourage his/her faith in the afterlife?

There is also the indolent, apathetic attitude that is spawned as a result of some faiths. The idea that this life is fleeting and that we should be concentrating on the next life is the cause of so much apathy that it makes me sick. What a waste!

Therefore, I believe that compromising a believers faith in the afterlife is of minimal consequence when compared to what can be gained by dispelling such myths.

Paddy

Starboy

I would add that if they try to convert you or anyone else then they are fair game.

freemonkey

Not only that, but I feel that usually a person's faith is not so easily destroyed until they're ready (emotionally & mentally) for it to happen. And like any great life-changing event, while it can be shattering at the outset, our lives are usually better for it.

Tusitala

If you find somebody who is Christian and is well behaved and does not try to force their views on other people, I vote to let them be.

I agree with your sentiments CaptainDave.

Tusi

Vibr8gKiwi

People make their own decisions. You can't destroy someone else's faith. All you can do is give them your perspective, if they consider it and lose their faith that was their own doing.

NOGO

MY attitude is to give them enough so that when the time comes and they have doubts they will have something to fall back on.

It is like taking a walk around a prison and pointing out the doors. When the person is ready to get out they will remember you and the doors.

So my top priority is to show them that one can be happy and also be a good person without religion. All the logical arguements against belief come second.

I doubt that you can shake someones faith that easily.

Starboy

From my experience I have yet to sink a Christian’s faith, but often I have succeeded in blowing many holes in the hull. When I finish with them they are taking on water and listing to one side. I have never had a case where they returned for a second try. This is something I only do when someone decides to save me otherwise I show the tolerance I expect to receive in kind.

Starboy

[ August 24, 2002: Message edited by: Starboy ]</p>

Perchance

I agree with those so far who've said that someone losing faith is himself at "fault"... or strength.

I've argued with enough people who won't change their minds (and not only about religion) to know that most people rarely change their minds solely because of reasoned argument. Emotional trauma, mental "readiness" for it, what people would like to be true, and wanting to believe themselves part of some special group can all play a part (as can other things, I'm sure). I know that when I began to question some of the attitudes I had been raised with, it took me a long time to decide that perhaps they were wrong after all, even though people around me all the time were arguing that way.

In fact, sometimes arguing against someone's faith, or homegrown attitudes, can do more to send them the other way than anything, because they're comfortable with what they believe true, and this new argument is challenging the familiarity of it.

So, in short: I don't think it's possible to destroy someone's faith. I wouldn't approve a non-believer launching a campaign just to change a person's mind- that smacks too much of forced conversion to me- but, on the other hand, I don't think the non-believer would "win that person's soul" anyway if the person wasn't ready to believe in it.

I, however, have no qualms about holding a religious discussion with someone who either a) asks me what I believe in or b) makes some sort of argument based solely on the Bible or other religious "proof" or c) is talking about religion in general. Fire away!

-Perchance.

[ August 24, 2002: Message edited by: Perchance ]</p>