snatchbalance

I don't know if this belongs here. For me, this is kind of a wierd question. But, has anyone else seen the VOID?

I mean, when I look "down", into my thoughts, past my memories, down into my skin, my cells, the molecules, down into the spaces of atraction between the atoms that make up my body; I come to the VOID. There's nothing there.

I can fill the void with bullshit; soul, god, spirit, ect; if I want to, but it really is just void.

Also, has anyone else looked into the abyss of death? Is it different from the VOID? It is for me.

These are my real questions. No BS.

Ramen

Can't say that I have. Here's a link to someone claiming to have experienced the void during his near-death experience...

<a href="http://www.near-death.com/experiences/benedict3.html" target="_blank">http://www.near-death.com/experiences/benedict3.html</a>

eh

There's nothing there? Oh yes there is.

There is nowhere in this universe where nothing exists.

snatchbalance

eh,

Well, I don't know that.

Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that "string theory" is correct. From my rudimentary understanding of that theory, subatomic particles are held in place by "strings". Are there spaces between the "strings"? What's in that space?

If "strings" overlap and/or meld, are they always in such a state? If strings and energy are one and the same thing, and how can they not be, what happens when they break, is a void created, if if only momentarily?

I don't know,and the phenomena that I sarted with may be more psychological than anything else, but it seems like there is a place for actuall, physical void within the atomic structure.

SB

Laurentius

AVE

There's a little nihilist gnawing at my brain&heart complex too, and he believes in the VOID. See for yourself:

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=56&t=000014" target="_blank">Nothingness and Reality Merge</a>

Here's the part with the void argument that the "little nihilist" believes in:

The material universe is really nothing else but rippling nothingness.

The universe is finite.

It may be infinite in space, but as much as we know it, the universe detected by telescopes is finite. Our instruments can reach until a limited distance. Scientists may of course suppose what might exist beyond that horizon, but this would be just speculation because the visible (or rather hearable) outer space is limited for us.

The quantity of matter is finite as well. Given the finite visible universe, its finite age and the finite age of its stars, there can only be a finite number of celestial objects in the universe, particularly stars. There are also smaller things, such as planets, comets, asteroids, dust and so on, but their quantity has been negligible so far. It results that the matter in the universe is finite.

The energy in the universe is finite. This is triggered by the facts above. A limited quantity of matter can only store limited energy. As the sky shows at night, there is little radiation emitted by the celestial bodies of the visible universe, and there is little radio activity too, comparing it to the vastness of the hearable universe.

In conclusion, evidence reveals that the universe is not as infinite as people regularly believe. As a matter of fact, it is not infinite at all.

Furthermore, matter is so scarce.

There is by far more void in the universe than matter. The scale of the observable universe is millions of millions of millions of millions of kilometers (1 followed by 24 zeroes). In this vast ocean of void, there is very little matter. If all the stars and galaxies were uniformly spread across the universe, then should be only one atom per meter cube of space. This is a void much closer to perfection than what the labs on Earth can produce. So, the outer space is a vast hollow.

The universe is becoming voider every minute. The rate of the universe’s expansion is so high that the calculations based on the data gathered so far prove that the dispersion will continue indefinitely, until there should be nothing left. Every billion years the universe is expanding by 5 to 10%. The total mass of the stars is below 1-10% of the necessary quantity to reverse the universal dispersion.

The microcosm is void too. It is well known that the picture modeling the atom shows it as a stadium and its nucleus as a pea. Compared to the nucleus though, the electrons, protons and neutrons are next to negligible. And yet, they are further divisible, revealing further microcosmic oceans of nothingness. There is energy, of course, but in a “closed” universe, as the one Einstein’s theory implies, the total of the energy in the universe is zero.

Particles and energy can be generated out of the blue.

According to the quantum theory, particles can appear purely out of void by “borrowing” energy from it. This quantum void sees different levels of excitation at different times, and can at one time generate matter or can fall into total stillness.

A finite and quite empty universe, whose total energy is zero and whose matter can be reduced to and fostered by void, seems rippling nothingness to me.

This is the reason why I am a nihilist and hold that reality and nothingness merge.

AVE

[ June 09, 2002: Message edited by: Laurentius ]</p>

snatchbalance

Laurentius,

Is this supposed to be a link? I can't get it to work.

SB

eh

That's a great question, and one I have often wondered about. If we assume string theory is correct, we have to understand that these strings might actually be 3 dimensional membranes instead of one dimensional strings. But let's just assume they are 1D strings.

Imagine a closed string. What then, is in between the ID of the disc formed by the string? Well, nothing. But wait, it's not exactly nothing because there is an underlying fabric of spacetime. In other words, there is always some energy that allows for virtual particles to lead their brief lives. No matter where you go, there is at least 'some' energy.

Defining exactly what this energy, or fabric of spacetime is would not be an easy task though.

excreationist

snatchbalance:
I think all people desire connectedness in their lives. Without it they feel a sense of alienation or emptiness. The void.

There are other alternatives for non-theists - e.g. family, altruistic behaviour, music, etc.

The "abyss of death" can be different... in the case of death, it can be a relief because you have escaped all the problems of the world. But if you face the void while you are alive it is bad since we have a desire to feel connected with some things. It is possible to feel connected with the void for short amounts of time (being lazy, etc) - but sooner or later the real world rears its ugly head - you have to pay your bills, do chores, etc.

Eldy

Are you desiring an answer to your questions? I can give you a personal experience which might point to some kind of answer. (I think all experience is personal, actually)

In 1997 I had a full-blown heart attack. I am a strong and powerful believer in God, so, as I apparently faced DEATH, I found a very fulfilling joy and calm in while the heart attack was going on. I also got the "feeling" that it was not going to be fatal, so this gave me much peace and confidence. I recovered, and now find that I have more faith than ever. I looked into the VOID, as it were, and found that my faith was as real as I was real.

Self-delusion could do the same thing, perhaps, I grant, but I am not sure that the kind of peace and confidence I had during the heart attack could have existed for me, if I was full of doubt and fearfulness. This will not be an answer for you, but for me, there is no void anywhere inside my mind or body. I know what I know. Knowing is the end zone of faith.

Laera

I'm not sure if you're looking at a "psychological" void, or a physical one, but my high school physics teacher once told me (and through my studies, I'm inclined to agree with him) - "All the actual matter that makes up your body, protons, neutrons, and electrons, would fit on the point of a pin if the charge were removed and it were condensed (essentially eliminating the void or space between these atomic particles)"

He went on to say that the whole earth would easily fit in a thimble - don't know if he's done any calculations, but considering the analogy above (golf ball vs. stadium), it sounds plausible enough. Granted, I've never heard of string theory, and I'm entirely discounting (in fact eliminating) the energy of the matter involved. But my definition of void is simply "absence of matter" (or absence of energy in the form of matter).

I don't think it's possible to actually see this void, however. The atoms and sub-atomic particles are moving too fast, creating the illusion of solid substance.

Psychologically, I can't help you.