Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hezekiah jones · 03-09-2002, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, probably never existed. Nor did Moses. The entire Exodus story as recounted in the Bible probably never occurred. The same is true of the tumbling of the walls of Jericho. And David, far from being the fearless king who built Jerusalem into a mighty capital, was more likely a provincial leader whose reputation was later magnified to provide a rallying point for a fledgling nation.

Such startling propositions — the product of findings by archaeologists digging in Israel and its environs over the last 25 years — have gained wide acceptance among non- Orthodox rabbis. But there has been no attempt to disseminate these ideas or to discuss them with the laity — until now.

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/09/arts/09BIBL.html?todaysheadlines" target="_blank">As Rabbis Face Facts, Bible Tales Are Wilting</a>

(The New York Times requires free registration.)

Since I came across this article at lucianne.com, I can't resist reproducing some of the reactions of the relentlessly paranoid "ldotters":

Quote:

Posted by: Halfgenius, 3/9/2002 10:16:00 AM

And the NY SLIMES knows this a fact because.....?????

Posted by: vastrightwinger, 3/9/2002 10:18:55 AM

The truth will prevail in the end.

Posted by: webGuy, 3/9/2002 10:19:17 AM

The New York Times says it, so it must be true.

Posted by: Defeat the Jackass Party, 3/9/2002 10:24:24 AM

I hope Mr. Massing enjoys cavorting with Ahab & Jezebel and Golieth in hell. Maybe they can debate the "Bible Tales" then.

Posted by: tx123, 3/9/2002 10:37:51 AM

This article is ridiculous and clearly typically one-side, NY times, Jew hating, religion-hating, God hating, leftist propaganda. There a so many conservative scholars who believe the Bible (Torah) is the word of God and not simply contains the word of God, it not even funny. It's similiar to the ridiculous Jesus Seminar that attracks so much attention, which only represent the view of less than 10% of scholars, yet gets the cover of Time Magazine every easter.

Posted by: Thomcat, 3/9/2002 10:52:36 AM

Religious beliefs will not be tolerated when the UN runs the Nuovo Ordo Seclorum. Therefore, all basis of belief must be shaken from the foundation. The Kaliforny Kommies and the Yew York Slimes are part of the satanic effort for the Beast of the sea(of humanity) to rise to power. See Rev 13:1.

Posted by: chocoholic, 3/9/2002 10:59:14 AM

The Torah and the Bible existed for thousands of years before the New York Times and will continue to carry God's Word long after the Times has gone where it belongs...in the ash heap of history.

Posted by: Christian Zionist, 3/9/2002 11:14:44 AM

That is why it is called FAITH.

Leave it to the NYT to misrepresent Jews and religion in general.

Posted by: gingersnap13, 3/9/2002 11:22:12 AM

The New York Slimes has just put the last nail in their coffin.

Posted by: zoe, 3/9/2002 11:25:05 AM

The attacks against religion continue.

Next will come a "Christian" group decrying the New Testament as untrue, and throwing doubts on the existence of Jesus.

This is a very good time to begin praying much more often and more fervently than we usually do.
There is a lot at stake in 2002.

Posted by: longrw, 3/9/2002 11:32:41 AM

It's time to read Lee Strobel's "A Case for Faith" as well as anything you can find that was written by Grant Jeffrey.

Posted by: grassrootsforever, 3/9/2002 12:18:02 PM

All I can say is, aren't they in for a Big surprise. The Bible says that God sits on His throne and laughs at Satan. That would include all of the talking heads that work for him. It is because He knows in the end, they will all know the truth...for many...sorry-TOO LATE. It doesn't matter what they say, the truth is still the truth. I just feel sorry for everyone who buys into the lie. They are doomed.

<a href="http://www.lucianne.com/threads2.asp?artnum=183399" target="_blank">And so on</a>.

hezekiah jones · 03-09-2002, 11:07 AM

Incidentally, that's the first time I've ever heard the New York Times referred to as "Jew hating." Billy Graham, are you listening?

diana · 03-09-2002, 12:07 PM

The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document.

The NYT has simply reported the news here, right? I consider the fact that the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism has argued that the Bible is a "human rather than divine document" news.

Why is everybody shooting the messenger?

Ignorance abounds. O the humanity!

d

hezekiah jones · 03-09-2002, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by diana:
The NYT has simply reported the news here, right? I consider the fact that the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism has argued that the Bible is a "human rather than divine document" news.

Yeah, exactly. But if you really want to lose faith in humanity in a hurry, I recommend spending a few minutes perusing the incisive commentary at lucianne.com.

I just thought it was appropriate, considering the invective levelled at some of the more "radical" (it seems they're becoming less and less radical every day) scholars by the conservatives that was unearthed in the other thread in this forum about the current Harper's article on the same subject.

People get awfully touchy when their cherished myths are demolished, don't they?

Jayhawker Soule · 03-09-2002, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hezekiahjones:
... if you really want to lose faith in humanity in a hurry, I recommend spending a few minutes perusing the incisive commentary at lucianne.com.

At the same time, I'm a little surprised that the focus is on the reaction rather than the intellectual integrity suggested by Etz Hayim. Also, just a few generations ago, folks who suggested such things would have faced far more than rabid commentary. The progress may be painfully slow, but it's nevertheless worth noting.

Marduk · 03-10-2002, 02:34 PM

ooops

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]

Kosh · 03-12-2002, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
ooops

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]

What strikes me the most about this thread is
the utter lack of defense attempts by Christians.
I would have at least exptected Nomad to come
in here guns a blazin'.

Seems like they've all had the rug pulled out
from under them by the Jewish scholars...

Jayhawker Soule · 03-12-2002, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kosh:
What strikes me the most about this thread is the utter lack of defense attempts by Christians. ... Seems like they've all had the rug pulled out from under them by the Jewish scholars...

They'll be back as soon as they regroup. I only hope that Etz Hayim lives up to its press -- I paid $59 for a copy.

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

spin · 03-12-2002, 12:44 PM

Kosh: "What strikes me the most about this thread is the utter lack of defense attempts by Christians. I would have at least expected Nomad to come in here guns a blazin'."

Why should they? That would require some sort of moral integrity.

"Seems like they've all had the rug pulled out
from under them by the Jewish scholars... "

Where are all the secular scholars? I guess we're not interested enough. Well, perhaps if I had $59 bucks to spare, but then I have other priorities in Jewish studies. (Any Jews have access to Seder Olam? or know where English versions of Mishnah or the Talmuds might be hiding on the net? -- I?ve actually found b.Berakhot, but nothing else.)

Kosh · 03-12-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spin:

Why should they? That would require some sort of moral integrity.

You're going to fit in just fine here!
<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

03-10-2002, 02:34 PM	#6
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	ooops [ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-09-2002, 11:07 AM	#2
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	Incidentally, that's the first time I've ever heard the New York Times referred to as "Jew hating." Billy Graham, are you listening?

03-09-2002, 12:07 PM	#3
diana Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 6,471	The United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism, which represents the 1.5 million Conservative Jews in the United States, has just issued a new Torah and commentary, the first for Conservatives in more than 60 years. Called "Etz Hayim" ("Tree of Life" in Hebrew), it offers an interpretation that incorporates the latest findings from archaeology, philology, anthropology and the study of ancient cultures. To the editors who worked on the book, it represents one of the boldest efforts ever to introduce into the religious mainstream a view of the Bible as a human rather than divine document. The NYT has simply reported the news here, right? I consider the fact that the United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism has argued that the Bible is a "human rather than divine document" news. Why is everybody shooting the messenger? Ignorance abounds. O the humanity! d

03-12-2002, 12:44 PM	#9
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Kosh: "What strikes me the most about this thread is the utter lack of defense attempts by Christians. I would have at least expected Nomad to come in here guns a blazin'." Why should they? That would require some sort of moral integrity. "Seems like they've all had the rug pulled out from under them by the Jewish scholars... " Where are all the secular scholars? I guess we're not interested enough. Well, perhaps if I had $59 bucks to spare, but then I have other priorities in Jewish studies. (Any Jews have access to Seder Olam? or know where English versions of Mishnah or the Talmuds might be hiding on the net? -- I?ve actually found b.Berakhot, but nothing else.)

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.