Heathen Dawn

I don't worship idols, I worship nature, but theists are going to call it worshipping the creation and therefore idolatry anyway. What I'd like to discuss is the truism, even among many non-theists, that idolatry is something to be ashamed of.

Apart from the theistic reason of its hurting the feelings of the God whose feelings are so easy to hurt, isn't idolatry or nature-worship an inevitable outcome of God's hiding himself? It is the parable of the music of Mozart: surely if he were alive then I'd praise him for his excellent music, but since he's a corpse and therefore inaccessible, I have no qualms about admiring his music rather than the man who is no longer with us. Now God is like Mozart in that he is inaccessible: you can't talk to him, he doesn't talk to you, dialogues with him are all make-believe, you don't see him, you only see what may possibly be his work.

I admit that if God created the whole of nature then credit must be given where it's due; however, I cannot perceive God with the senses, so I can't worship him. I cannot call "glorious, splendid, outstanding" that which is outside my sensory perception. Owing to that, I worship nature rather than a transcendent creator of nature. Why is that wrong? Isn't it God's fault that he's hidden and nature is revealed?

I don't think idolatry or nature-worship is wrong. It is simply trying to fill a vacuum (the transcendent God) with something sensed, tangible to worship.

Heathen Dawn
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Morgan

Well, I believe the Biblical argument goes something like this:

Idols are icons of the Devil. If you worship the devil, you're going to Hell.

This, of course, is rubbish. It was simply a ploy to get people to follow the Bible. I mean, you could hardly have a religion which says, "Yeah, yeah, you can worship whoever you want" and expect people to follow it, can you?

There is nothing wrong with idolatry and you shouldn't be ashamed of your beliefs; its part of who you are.

Heathen Dawn

But apart from God's itching ears (he can't stand hearing anything contrary to praising him, any word of criticism, according to his spokesmen), I have also come across the argument that worshipping (for instance) a tree is illogical because the tree can be destroyed, while God cannot. In other words, theists say the most powerful, invincible, indestructible should be worshipped. This is a horrendous example of "might makes right" taken to the extreme.

God being all-powerful is a reason for me not to worship him. I don't bow before every dictator. Nature is not all-powerful, but she is admirable in an inexplicable way, in a holy way.

Heathen Dawn
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MortalWombat

You could could reply that you believe that when a tree is destroyed, it gets ressurected again after three days.

Amos

Nature worship is not all bad because it could also be the case that your light of common day is so filled with doom and gloom that you'd rather tear up the song you wrote and so kill the God that once was your delight by day and by night.

Orestes

I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as Idolatry. It is simply a slander used by members of one religion to belittle members of another. They claim that you worship nature and are therefore Idolizing nature.

That is simply small mindedness on the theists part. Are you literally worshipping the tree itself, or is the tree symbolic of something else? For example, when a christian prays and they hold on to a small cross that is dangling from their neck by a chain, it should be obvious that they are not actually praying to the cross itself, but to what it symbolizes. It should then be equally obvious that you are not literally worshipping the tree, but what is symbolizes.

sullster

I say there is nothing wrong with worshipping nature. It is just a waste of emotional energy on a par with any religious feeling. Nature is amazing to contemplate in all its facets but to worship it is silly.

I would feel respect, though, for a nature worshipper who sang praises equally for the virus which sickens and kills him as well as for the beatiful sunset he sees. If he praised the animal which dragged him off and devoured him, I would find him somewhat deluded but at least worthy of admiration.

I feel that when one departs from the religious mind-set then one departs from all possible manifestations of such a viewpoint. I do not worship. Gods, theologies, political ideologies, and any material are not to be worshipped. Worship of anything is emotion expended on nothingness.

Triple Six

The real reason some theists have a problem with worshipping idols is that you are not following their religion. More importantly they are not getting your cash.

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Proud atheist ]</p>

Heathen Dawn

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Probably because you're accustomed to the theistic concept of worship. Worship of God is utilitarian: you worship God so that you may have a successful, calamity-free life as much as possible. With nature there is no such guarantee, nor any need for one. I don't expect nature to reward me for worship.

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Sh*t is part of nature too, but I don't worship it. It's all based on what delights the senses.

You can say that about, for instance, composing music or painting pictures, indeed about anything. I trust you don't believe in an afterlife; therefore, most such activities are ultimately emotion expended on nothingness. That's irrational too. The fully rational life is that of eating, drinking and having children alone. Animals apart from us lead fully rational lives.

(edited for faulty tags)

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Heathen Dawn ]</p>

Morgan

I respect nature-worshippers' beliefs more then beliefs of a Christian. At least a nature-worshippers can provide me with evidence that nature exists. Christians can give me no such assurances.