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Old 05-01-2003, 07:24 AM   #1
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Default Comment on Christian Apologetics

When I read the bible the first time I was surprised at how ludicrous it was. After all, this is a document that is purported to contain a message to us from a being powerful and competent enough to create the entire universe and the life in it. I was so surprised I read it again, with the same result. My opinion of the bible was (as still is) that it is at best a poorly written historical myth and should not be used to base anyone’s life on. Yet there are over a billion people who claim to do just that.

Being curious, I read some Christian apologetics, but I am forced to admit I did not do well with them. I could not put up with the undue credulity afforded any cockamamie scheme to resolve apparent conflicts and absurdities. I came to the conclusion that people do not really base their lives on the bible at all. They use the bible sort of like a Rorschach test. They find meaning in nonsense.

In order to demonstrate this, here are some “apologies” I have come up for the fictitious verse 1:1 of the holy book of Ridiculous: “Blessed is the believer, for he has not nose on his face”.

Apologist #1 (Metaphorical response): “Of course this passage doesn‘t literally mean that a believer doesn’t have a nose. This is an important passage and is SO empowering. What it means is that a believer is free to be himself. He no longer has to hide his blemishes. The lord will take care of that for him.”

Apologist #2 (Liberal interpretation with a linguistic bias): “This passage demonstrates the importance of going back to the original language. The book of Ridiculous is the only book of the bible written in Mythaic. The Mythaic word for ‘nose’ is ‘honker’. There is another Mythaic word ‘bonker’ which means ‘butt’. Notice that there is but a single letter difference. This is most likely due to a transcription error. The original passage should have been ‘Blessed is the believer, for he has not nose on his butt’. The phrase ‘nose on his butt’ was an idiomatic expression meaning ‘to be in a problematic [stinky] situation’. So what the verse is really saying is that the Lord will relieve the believer of his problems which are the cause of his stinky situation.”

Apologist #3 (Prophetic literal interpretation with a historical bias): “This problem people have with this passage is that they do not realize it applies to a PARTICULAR believer. This passage actually forecasts the coming of Tycho Brahe, the medieval astronomer. Tycho was a rambunctious youth and during a drunken fit of anger he got into a fight. The result was that his nose was cut off. He wore a brass metal prosthetic nose for the rest of his life. He also repented and gave his life to the Lord. It was after this that he made extremely accurate observations of the movement of the planets that allowed Johannes Kepler to derive his laws of planetary motion.”

Apologist #4 (Literal Fundamentalist): “The nose is a device used for breathing. Once one becomes a believer and enters into the spirit of the Lord, he becomes more than he was. Even the nose is no longer just a device for breathing. It becomes a device for enjoying the wonder of God’s creation. Imagine the wonder of the smell of a rose. It is screaming the majesty of God’s handiwork. To a believer, the nose becomes an object of beauty in itself. Someday you should look at a picture of Celine Dion. Notice the wonder of her nose. To a believer, the nose becomes an object of utility. It holds up a person’s glasses. Thus, once a person becomes a believer, his eyes are open to a whole range of possibilities he could not see before. What we once saw as a simple device for breathing, we now can see has an abundance of other uses. Therefore, it not really the same nose that we knew before we became a believer.”

Apologist #5 (Prophetic Fundamentalist): I would like to thank Dr. Apologist #4, for his perceptive remarks. I wholly concur. However, I would like to add an important comment to Dr. Apologist #4’s analysis of the scripture. One of the extra uses for the nose that Dr. Apologist #5 correctly points out is that it can be used to hold up glasses. What the bible is doing here is prophesizing that glasses would be invented. There were no glasses during the days in which this verse was written. It was Johannes Hugyens, a creationist, who invented glasses in the 1450’s. But plainly, here it is for anyone willing to see. About 2000 years earlier, the bible has already predicted their coming.”

There … you have 5 apologetic ways of denying the nose on your face. Every one of them has some type of plausibility to it, but they are all ways of making what is clearly nonsense into something meaningful. But the meaning arises only from the attempt to come up with meaning. It does not come from the words, rather it comes from the person. This is essentially the same process a psychiatric patient goes through when he looks at Rorschach ink blots. The meaning doesn’t come from the blots, but rather come from the individual’s attempt to find meaning in nonsense. The only way to come up with this meaning is to conclude beforehand to rule out the nonsense option. If you do not rule out this option and you find thousands of (real) examples like the one above, then it becomes clear that the bible is plainly NOT the inspired work of an omnipotent being capable of creating the universe and the life in it. It is ridiculous to believe that such a being would be such a lousy communicator.

Regards,

Darwin’s Beagle
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Old 05-01-2003, 08:27 AM   #2
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Default Re: Comment on Christian Apologetics

Quote:
Originally posted by Darwin's Beagle
This is essentially the same process a psychiatric patient goes through when he looks at Rorschach ink blots. The meaning doesn’t come from the blots, but rather come from the individual’s attempt to find meaning in nonsense.
:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

I've argued before that the Bible is a moral and theological Rorschach test. It's the only credible explanation for the multitude of denomintations and interpretations.

Thanks,

-Mike...
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Old 05-01-2003, 10:13 AM   #3
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Excellent DB!
Even though it really IS sad, I have to admit I HAD to laugh.
:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
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Old 05-01-2003, 11:16 AM   #4
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Highly amusing, well done.
I think it's sad to consider just how accurate it is.
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Old 05-01-2003, 12:51 PM   #5
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There would be some hardcore fundies who would take this verse literally and decided to cut their noses off. They might decided they needed to cut eveyone's noses off to save them from the fires of hell.
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Old 05-01-2003, 01:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dargo
There would be some hardcore fundies who would take this verse literally and decided to cut their noses off. They might decided they needed to cut eveyone's noses off to save them from the fires of hell.
Or at least cut off their own noses to save their virtue:

In the great monastery of Coldingham, beyond Berwick, the nuns, fearing not death but insults which might be offered to their chastity, at the instigation of St. Ebba, the holy abbess, cut off their noses and upper lips, that appearing to the barbarians frightful spectacles of horror, they might preserve their virtue from danger; the infidels accordingly were disconcerted at such a sight, and spared their virtue, but put them all to the sword.

Viking Conquest Of East Anglia (England)

-Mike...
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Old 05-01-2003, 01:28 PM   #7
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I would say that the meaning of any literary work occurs at the point of intersection between the reader and the text. Each reader brings different experiences and biases to the table that interact variably with the material in the text.
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Old 05-01-2003, 09:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
I would say that the meaning of any literary work occurs at the point of intersection between the reader and the text. Each reader brings different experiences and biases to the table that interact variably with the material in the text.
True, but it seems those who hold power over translations and revisions of the bible would like to control the biases evoked in the reader when they deem it necessary. Here's an example I found, in the form of an argument for god's existence I posted in the humor forum (sorry if anyone's already seen it there):

ARGUMENT FROM INTIMIDATION II: CREATION OF PRESENT-DAY GENERALIZED FEAR THROUGH TEXTUAL REVISION OF ERA-SPECIFIC FEAR

(1) I Samuel 5:6 (King James Version) says, "But the hand of the LORD was heavy upon them ... and smote them with emerods ..." [hemorrhoids].

(2) Hemorrhoids may have been frightening in ancient times, but these days they're good for no more than a cheap laugh, especially since Preparation H and rubber-band ligation were invented.

(3) Cancer, however, scares the poo out of everyone.

(4) Therefore, in the New International and Revised Standard Versions, the word "emerods" shall be replaced with "tumors."

(5) Disbelief in God is now carcinogenic.

(6) Therefore, God exists.

P.S. If you want to compare revisions for fear induction further, check out *The Layman's Parallel Bible* (Zondervan 1981), which has the KJV, NIV, Living Bible and RSV in parallel columns. For more on the biblical significance of 'roids, see this riotously funny article:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/emrods.htm

Of course, during the time Michael Jackson was a JW, he probably encountered every one of Darwin's Beagle's above-noted nose apologetics ...
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Old 05-02-2003, 12:14 PM   #9
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The moral of that story is, you had better kiss God's arse or he'll really stick it to yours, good and proper !
The inventer of preperation H must then be the Devil ?
Thanks mate
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