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12-18-2002, 12:38 PM | #21 |
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Hmmm... if diana will be moderating this forum, I think I just found a reason to lurk in it. [/fan raving]
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12-18-2002, 02:54 PM | #22 |
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Welcome diana. I admire your no bullshit take no prisoners style. I mostly lurk here and post in evo/cre but I'm glad to see your a mod here.
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12-18-2002, 06:07 PM | #23 |
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Congrats diana, I'm sure you'll do a great job.
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12-19-2002, 04:34 AM | #24 |
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I think the inherent logic in ordinary language is a crippled philosophy to maintain.
But that's a separate issue, and welcome to the EoG forum, diana! [ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Kantian ]</p> |
12-19-2002, 05:18 AM | #25 |
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I don't suppose you've ever been in Ephesus, have yer, Missus? (Better back away from that....) All sorts (> chhocolate, not licorice) of welcomes & bon voyages, Diana. Abe
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12-19-2002, 05:23 AM | #26 | |
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Quote:
d |
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12-20-2002, 08:41 AM | #27 | |
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Friendly ribbing aside, you seem to have quite a reputation here and I look forward to reading your posts and/or responses. It is a pleasure to have you moderating this forum diana and I hope you decide to hunt down and refute one of my foolish ideas (or ham-handed allusions) in the near future! |
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12-20-2002, 10:30 AM | #28 | |||
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Hi, long winded fool.
Nice nick, btw. I won't forget it anytime soon. P1: We are capable of knowing/understanding those things that are logical. P2: We don't know/understand any gods. C: If a god exists, it must exist outside of logic. I'm sorry. To me, this is not unlike arguing that Ben Franklin invented lightning. It's all bass ackwards. I'm not sure how to explain that at the moment, and I'm on my way out the door. I'm hoping someone else who's been tangling with it can point out exactly where and why it fails (I'll be out of town over the next couple of days). All I can say at the moment is that it sounds all twisted. Quote:
Sorry. I find hypotheticals that argue against logic using logic pointless. Quote:
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It's a pleasure meeting you, fool. Sounds like you'll be a pleasure to lock horns with. d |
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12-22-2002, 11:00 AM | #29 |
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But if existence and logic are both dependent upon the space-time continuum, and the space-time continuum has a cause, then the cause must 'be' outside of existence and outside of logic as we know it. The space-time continuum doesn't necessarily have to have a cause, but theists believe that it does, therefore logical contradictions pertaining to the 'existence' of this cause can't be used to disprove it. Of course, the cause itself can never be proven either, but the most an atheist can say is, "I believe that the space-time continuum is uncaused (infinite) because I have no reason to believe it has to have a cause." And the theists can rationally say, "I believe the space-time continuum was created because it executes sequentially and logically just like a computer program." You can prove that theists have unproven and illogical ideas about the nature of their "programmer," but you can't definitively say that there is no programmer. The programmer obviously doesn't exist in the program because he programmed its existence. In this scenario, agnosticism seems a much more honest (and free from "faith") stance than atheism or theism.
To read the whole program analogy, click <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=50&t=000722" target="_blank">here</a>. [ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: long winded fool ]</p> |
12-24-2002, 09:34 AM | #30 | |
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long-winded fool,
Quote:
AND The STC has a cause THEN The cause must exist outside of the STC. Your first premise directly contradicts your conclusion. Same old story, different words. d |
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