Freethought & Rationalism Archive

oriecat · 04-17-2002, 08:26 PM

Who approves this crap?!

<a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr041702.htm" target="_blank">http://www.au.org/press/pr041702.htm</a>

The Resistance · 04-17-2002, 09:56 PM

Well, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that my tax dollars are going to pay for Bibles, so this doesn't surprise me. If you accomendate one religion, then you have to accomendate them all, or none. Personally, I think this is an instance where we should accomendate for none, but I'm willing to bet the average Christian who hears abut this is going to be angrier than I am.

crazyfingers · 04-18-2002, 04:47 AM

There was someting on NPR about this a few weeks ago. I'm surprised it took the AU so long to get an opinion out.

sidewinder · 04-18-2002, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by oriecat:
<strong>Who approves this crap?!

<a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr041702.htm" target="_blank">http://www.au.org/press/pr041702.htm</a></strong>

I heard this on NPR too. The report said that the Islam being taught in the books was moderate Islam as opposed to the fundamentalist Islam being taught in the madrasses. I also think the report mentioned that the history being taught in these books would be more objective but I'm not sure about that part.

simian · 04-18-2002, 07:25 AM

I also heard the NPR report. My memory is a little vague, but I believe the US had also provided the books that were used under the Taliban. As I say, my memory is a little vague here. Mainly because I see it as just another "faith-based" system my money is paying for.

I wish I had paid more attention.....

Toto · 04-18-2002, 02:50 PM

I didn't hear the NPR story, but I read this much more disturbing story also referenced on the <a href="http://www.au.org" target="_blank">AU home page</a>. It seems that the US spend our tax money to print textbooks full of violent Islamist imagery and militant teachings, as part of the plan to destabilize Soviet-dominated Afghanistan. A generation of young kids were raised on jihad thanks to us.

Most news stories have reported on the more moderate textbooks, without dwelling on the fact that the bad textbooks being replaced were also funded by the US.

<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5339-2002Mar22.html" target="_blank">ABC's of Jihad: Violent Soviet-Era Textbooks Complicate Afghan Education Efforts </a>

Quote:

In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation.

The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books, though the radical movement scratched out human faces in keeping with its strict fundamentalist code.

As Afghan schools reopen today, the United States is back in the business of providing schoolbooks. But now it is wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism. What seemed like a good idea in the context of the Cold War is being criticized by humanitarian workers as a crude tool that steeped a generation in violence.

Last month, a U.S. foreign aid official said, workers launched a "scrubbing" operation in neighboring Pakistan to purge from the books all references to rifles and killing. Many of the 4 million texts being trucked into Afghanistan, and millions more on the way, still feature Koranic verses and teach Muslim tenets.

The White House defends the religious content, saying that Islamic principles permeate Afghan culture and that the books "are fully in compliance with U.S. law and policy." Legal experts, however, question whether the books violate a constitutional ban on using tax dollars to promote religion.

Organizations accepting funding from the U.S. Agency for International Development must certify that tax dollars will not be used to advance religion. The certification states that AID "will finance only programs that have a secular purpose. . . . AID-financed activities cannot result in religious indoctrination of the ultimate beneficiaries."

. . .

President Bush and first lady Laura Bush have repeatedly spotlighted the Afghan textbooks in recent weeks. Last Saturday, Bush announced during his weekly radio address that the 10 million U.S.-supplied books being trucked to Afghan schools would teach "respect for human dignity, instead of indoctrinating students with fanaticism and bigotry."

The first lady stood alongside Afghan interim leader Hamid Karzai on Jan. 29 to announce that AID would give the University of Nebraska at Omaha $6.5 million to provide textbooks and teacher training kits.

AID officials said in interviews that they left the Islamic materials intact because they feared Afghan educators would reject books lacking a strong dose of Muslim thought. The agency removed its logo and any mention of the U.S. government from the religious texts, AID spokeswoman Kathryn Stratos said.

"It's not AID's policy to support religious instruction," Stratos said. "But we went ahead with this project because the primary purpose . . . is to educate children, which is predominantly a secular activity."

. . .

Notice that the headline says "Soviet Era", as if the textbooks were written by those bad Communists, but the first paragraph lets you know that the texts were made in America.

"It is not AID's policy to support religious instruction but we went ahead because instruction is predominantly a secular activity." This logic would blast holes in the wall of separation.

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Also commented on <a href="http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/jihad.htm" target="_blank">here</a>:

Quote:

According to the Post, these violent Islamist schoolbooks, which "served...as the Afghan school system's core curriculum" produced "unintended consequences."

Core curriculum? Unintended consequences?

Yes, reports the Washington Post, according to unnamed officials the schoolbooks "steeped a generation in [Islamist] violence."

How could this result be unintended? Did they expect that having fundamentalist schoolbooks in the core curriculum would produce moderate Muslims?

LET'S BE REASONABLE

Nobody with normal intelligence could expect to distribute millions of violent Islamist schoolbooks without influencing school children towards violent Islamism. Therefore one would assume that the unnamed US officials who, we are told, are distressed at these "unintended consequences" must previously have been unaware of the Islamist content of the schoolbooks.

But surely someone was aware. The US government can't write, edit, print and ship millions of violent, Muslim fundamentalist primers into Afghanistan without somebody in high places (in the US government) approving those primers.

Gar · 05-02-2002, 10:21 AM

Frankly, I think that in this case it is probably in the interest of the US to let them have their religion. We're obviously not giving them extremist textbooks (learned that the hard way) and not including religion in their books would most likely agitate anti-american sentiment on the grounds of the US being anti-Islamic or godless.

Toto · 05-02-2002, 10:38 AM

Why is it so obvious we aren't giving them extremist textbooks? It appears that some minor modifications were made in the extremist textbooks but there are still messages that may come back to haunt us.

If any country ought to be embracing secularism, it should be Afghanistan. Besides - what are they going to do? Reject our aid? We are missing a big opportunity.

Gar · 05-07-2002, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
<strong>

If any country ought to be embracing secularism, it should be Afghanistan. Besides - what are they going to do? Reject our aid? We are missing a big opportunity.</strong>

You honestly think they are going to throw away their religious beliefs because we tell them to in their schoolbooks? I doubt it.

Also, I think that Americans would sooner try to convert them to Christianity than get them to embrace secularism.

04-17-2002, 08:26 PM	#1
oriecat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland OR USA Posts: 1,098	US to provide Islamic books to Afghans? Who approves this crap?! <a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr041702.htm" target="_blank">http://www.au.org/press/pr041702.htm</a>

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04-17-2002, 09:56 PM	#2
The Resistance Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 571	Well, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that my tax dollars are going to pay for Bibles, so this doesn't surprise me. If you accomendate one religion, then you have to accomendate them all, or none. Personally, I think this is an instance where we should accomendate for none, but I'm willing to bet the average Christian who hears abut this is going to be angrier than I am.

04-18-2002, 04:47 AM	#3
crazyfingers Contributor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 13,699	There was someting on NPR about this a few weeks ago. I'm surprised it took the AU so long to get an opinion out.

04-18-2002, 07:25 AM	#5
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	I also heard the NPR report. My memory is a little vague, but I believe the US had also provided the books that were used under the Taliban. As I say, my memory is a little vague here. Mainly because I see it as just another "faith-based" system my money is paying for. I wish I had paid more attention.....

05-02-2002, 10:21 AM	#7
Gar Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Boston, Mass Posts: 347	Frankly, I think that in this case it is probably in the interest of the US to let them have their religion. We're obviously not giving them extremist textbooks (learned that the hard way) and not including religion in their books would most likely agitate anti-american sentiment on the grounds of the US being anti-Islamic or godless.

05-02-2002, 10:38 AM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Why is it so obvious we aren't giving them extremist textbooks? It appears that some minor modifications were made in the extremist textbooks but there are still messages that may come back to haunt us. If any country ought to be embracing secularism, it should be Afghanistan. Besides - what are they going to do? Reject our aid? We are missing a big opportunity.

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