Jeremy Pallant

What?

Jobar

Well, I have had acid trips I would call paradisical; in a way I could say I saw God there, too!

And those acid trips were *also* part of reality.

Amos, I think you and I are saying very similar things; me in the language of pantheism, you in the language of Catholic mysticism. Perhaps your version is clearer to you; I think, though, that your attempts to stay within the bounds of Catholic doctrine are incredibly strained and distorted, like trying to express calculus in Chinese instead of mathematical notation. (And of course, there will always be people who can understand neither- but the notation is far simpler.) And of course, you do *not* stay within Catholic dogma; look at the number of Catholic mystics who have been excommunicated, or even executed.

Jeremy, pardon me for going off topic. I hope that some of our other theists, like luvluv, will reply.

luvluv

Jobar:

Gladly.

I don't know.

Keith Russell

Greetings:

Amos said:
"Paradise is regained when our faculty of reason is placed subservient to intuition."

Keith: Then, 'paradise' isn't a desired state, but something to be avoided.

Amos:
For this to be achieved our persona must be crucified--

Keith: Ouch! I'll pass...

Amos:
--while its attributes (our personal apostels) must be recalled into the upper room so that sanity will prevail.

Keith: Surely you realize that 'sanity' is a legal term. (Or, perhaps you don't...)

Amos:
The upper room is our subconscious mind to which we ascend and are entertained there by the richess we gathered with our persona while on earth.

Keith: Okayfine.

Amos

What did you expect? Feathers?

Amos

Don't be so sure about that because not all mystics had correct opinion (mystics are not gnostic and may or may not have correct opinion). Many were witches and sought followers which is why the protestant church today can claim apostolic tradition on the anathema side of the Church.

Strained? Distorted? I can read my posts in their icons which is the only reason why they are icons and not just paintings.

Maybe I do read the other side of the double edged sword but without the second edge it would not be inspirational so there is no reason to convict me of heresy until you can prove me wrong.

I claim to be a Catholic because I was baptised Catholic but I defend the philosophy behind Catholicism and do it just for the fun of doing it.

Amos

Salvation is certianly not for cowards and this is where the confessionals are great courage builders.

Yes, and that why many insane asylums are filled with incomplete conversions.

Jobar

Amos:
"Don't be so sure about that because not all mystics had correct opinion (mystics are not gnostic and may or may not have correct opinion). Many were witches and sought followers which is why the protestant church today can claim apostolic tradition on the anathema side of the Church."

Amos, you are allowing others to decide for you what is "correct opinion". In this case, others from ages where such things as witches were considered real.

It's OK to look for wisdom in Catholicism- I think there is plenty there. But if you allow anyone else to decide what *your* opinion is, you are not thinking for yourself, and you may find yourself doing things you find evil. We must each form our own "correct opinion" as best we may. Do you or do you not consider yourself a freethinker?

Amos

Yes I am a freethinker but I lean heavily on existing material. You should also understand that we have the Church Millitant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant so it is impossible for anyone to say who is wrong because the Church Triumphant is opposite the Church Millitant. Life in the Catholic Church is progressive and the most unique of all is that poor Catholics are really the best Catholics.

I very much appreciate this discussion board and the freedom I have here to express my opinion (Catholic boards would never allow me to do this). It is good to be a freethinker and put faith to the test. Thank you very much.

BTW, witches are just as real today as they ever were and charismatic circles are full of them. No, charismatic is not wrong but many charismatics are witches. All evangelists are witches and like to prey on suffering virgin Catholics ("where the carcass lies the vultures will gather" comes to mind here).

Please understand that in the same way Jesus was real it is that witches are real. Witches do not actually fly on a broom but they gather a group of sciptures and on this bundle they soar through midheaven . . . which is purgatory indeed but purgatory without end is equal to hell. The next group will stew up their own recipe on which they soar and, like the rest of them, must keep burning scriptures to stay aloft because if they crash they lose their salvation. Others just oxidize at the foot of the cross and remain there in sorrow and repentance until they die nonetheless.

For sure, al of the above is in the bible.

Jeremy Pallant

Not much of a sales technique is it? I mean it is one of the major selling points of Christianity. The conversation would go something like this.

Christian: Believe in Jesus, and you'll live forever in paradise.

Atheist: What's paradise like?

Christian: I don't know.

Atheist: Think I'll become a Muslim. At least I'm guaranteed seventy two virgins when I die.