Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bokonon · 07-10-2002, 05:02 PM

In a recent letter to the editor in my local paper, someone mentioned the statement "in the Year of our Lord" in the Constitution as an endorsement of Christianity. How would you respond to that?

The most logical explanation is that it's simply the phrase of the time, no more than "God bless you" when one sneezes today. I've seen it in many writings from that era. It seems to me if we were intended to be a Christian nation, there'd be more references to "our Lord" than that.

"Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names."

Starspun · 07-10-2002, 05:07 PM

Quote:

In a recent letter to the editor in my local paper, someone mentioned the statement "in the Year of our Lord" in the Constitution as an endorsement of Christianity. How would you respond to that?

The year of our lord probably comes from the term A.D. Since we use this calendar system, it would make sense, but have nothing to do with the US being a xtian nation.
To refute that claim, just look to the Treaty of Tripoli.

braces_for_impact · 07-10-2002, 05:09 PM

The phrase "In the year of our lord" merely recognizes our adoption of the chrisitian calendar, which is in turn based on the Roman calendar, nothing more. It is important to note that many of the months of the year are all based upon Roman gods. Does this in turn mean that our founding fathers established this country with intention of worshipping the Roman gods? Or perhaps we should worship Norse gods as the days of the week are all based on Norse gods. Monday=Moonday, Thursday=Thor's day, etc.

[ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: braces_for_impact ]</p>

gus · 07-10-2002, 05:15 PM

Strictly convention. It was the formal way to denote a date back then.

If using that phrase was meant to literally state that Jesus is our Lord, then using "Thursday" means Thor is our god of thunder and using "March" means Mars is our god of war, etc.

Krieger · 07-10-2002, 05:16 PM

The 365 day year with 12 months came from ancient Egypt. However, it was a year made up of 36 ten day weeks, with one weird five day week at the end of the year.

Buffman · 07-10-2002, 07:15 PM

<a href="http://astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html" target="_blank">http://astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html</a>

(Extract)
What Dionysius did not do is establish an accurate date for the birth of Christ. Although scholars generally believe that Christ was born some years before A.D. 1, the historical evidence is too sketchy to allow a definitive dating.
(End extract)

PJPSYCO · 07-10-2002, 08:29 PM

It is a thrown around phrase and has no meaning to them but that this is what year it is, much like when someone says, "God bless you". God bless you is a comand to their god to cover you in blood in this case because they think your soul is escaping from your body(the air not in your body is made of satan), and covering you in blood should stop that(religious beleifs are funny

). In truth most of people are shocked at this explination of their phrase, and were only doing it because they were told it is the polite thing to do(ie the people that taught it to them don't know what it means either). Its a meaningless phrase.

Toto · 07-10-2002, 10:40 PM

On God Bless You:

Quote:

The custom of saying "God bless you" when someone has sneezed, and the making of the Sign of the Cross on the mouths of those who yawn, goes back to the days of Saint Gregory and the Roman plague. The dread disease always ended in a spasm of sneezing or yawning, and the holy Pontiff ordered that "God bless you" should be said to those who sneeze, and the blessing of the Sign of the Cross should be put on the mouths of those who yawned.

from <a href="http://www.catholicism.org/pages/greg.htm" target="_blank">The Life of Saint Gregory the Great</a>

Nothing to do with god covering you with blood.

Back to the original question:

In our more secular and religiously inclusive era, "in the year of our Lord" (anno domini in Latin) has been replaced by "C.E." for common era. But I would still not attribute too much to the Founding Fathers' use of the term. They were not so radical that they tried to redesign the calendar.

Oresta · 07-11-2002, 04:31 AM

They were not so radical that they tried to redesign the calendar.

...as did the French.

07-10-2002, 05:02 PM	#1
Bokonon Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Left of the Mississippi Posts: 138	"...in the Year of our Lord" In a recent letter to the editor in my local paper, someone mentioned the statement "in the Year of our Lord" in the Constitution as an endorsement of Christianity. How would you respond to that? The most logical explanation is that it's simply the phrase of the time, no more than "God bless you" when one sneezes today. I've seen it in many writings from that era. It seems to me if we were intended to be a Christian nation, there'd be more references to "our Lord" than that. "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In Witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names."

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07-10-2002, 05:09 PM	#3
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	The phrase "In the year of our lord" merely recognizes our adoption of the chrisitian calendar, which is in turn based on the Roman calendar, nothing more. It is important to note that many of the months of the year are all based upon Roman gods. Does this in turn mean that our founding fathers established this country with intention of worshipping the Roman gods? Or perhaps we should worship Norse gods as the days of the week are all based on Norse gods. Monday=Moonday, Thursday=Thor's day, etc. [ July 10, 2002: Message edited by: braces_for_impact ]</p>

07-10-2002, 05:15 PM	#4
gus Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 21	Strictly convention. It was the formal way to denote a date back then. If using that phrase was meant to literally state that Jesus is our Lord, then using "Thursday" means Thor is our god of thunder and using "March" means Mars is our god of war, etc.

07-10-2002, 05:16 PM	#5
Krieger Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: ... Posts: 2,191	The 365 day year with 12 months came from ancient Egypt. However, it was a year made up of 36 ten day weeks, with one weird five day week at the end of the year.

07-10-2002, 07:15 PM	#6
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	<a href="http://astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html" target="_blank">http://astro.nmsu.edu/~lhuber/leaphist.html</a> (Extract) What Dionysius did not do is establish an accurate date for the birth of Christ. Although scholars generally believe that Christ was born some years before A.D. 1, the historical evidence is too sketchy to allow a definitive dating. (End extract)

07-10-2002, 08:29 PM	#7
PJPSYCO Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Rolla, Missouri Posts: 830	It is a thrown around phrase and has no meaning to them but that this is what year it is, much like when someone says, "God bless you". God bless you is a comand to their god to cover you in blood in this case because they think your soul is escaping from your body(the air not in your body is made of satan), and covering you in blood should stop that(religious beleifs are funny ). In truth most of people are shocked at this explination of their phrase, and were only doing it because they were told it is the polite thing to do(ie the people that taught it to them don't know what it means either). Its a meaningless phrase.

07-11-2002, 04:31 AM	#9
Oresta Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 1,107	They were not so radical that they tried to redesign the calendar. ...as did the French.

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