Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mageth · 01-25-2002, 10:09 AM

Ah, Koi, it requires FAITH! Which brings up my favorite bit from the Hitchhiker's Guide:

Quote:

"I refuse to prove that I exist", says God "for proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing".
"But," says Man, "the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own argument you don't. QED"
"Oh, dear", says God, "I hadn't thought of that", and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

[ January 25, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 01-25-2002, 11:09 AM

Then man went on to prove that black is white, night is day, and promptly got run over by a bus while crossing the street.

99Percent · 01-26-2002, 02:24 PM

kenny: As theists, we believe that the universe is the result of a rational plan and, hence, a rational place. We don�t �want to live in an irrational world,� nor do we believe that it is one.

Then why do theist believe in the irrational like life after death, or that Jesus can walk on water or that he converted water into wine?

Scrutinizer · 01-26-2002, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
NOR IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE OR JUSTIFICATION FOR SIMPLY ACCEPTING THIS FICTIONAL NONSENSE AS "TRUE!"

You can't just say, "we believe it's true, therefore it is true." You have to actually back up this nonsense with compelling evidence, not childish proclamations!

Why is that so f*ing difficult for you cult members to get through your non-evolved brains?

Uh, Kenny wasn't arguing for the truth of his statements about Christian theism; he was simply pointing out what it is that Christians believe.

I don't understand why that's so difficult for Koy to get through his non-evolved brain.

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

[ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Scrutinizer ]</p>

tronvillain · 01-26-2002, 05:50 PM

I find it odd that 99Percent never addressed Kenny's observation about how terrible the initial syllogism is.

Even worse is Foxhole Atheist's:

Quote:

1. God is irrational.
2. Miracles are irrational.
3. Therefore if miracles are true, God must be true
4. If miracles and God are true, then the afterlife is true.

This entire thread is a disgrace to atheists.

CodeMason · 01-26-2002, 06:17 PM

Yes, 3 most certainly does not follow from 1 and 2, it's an establishment of false correlation. 4 does not follow from the premises either. Your whole argument is a bit like saying:

1. pi is irrational.
2. Flying pigs are irrational.
3. Therefore flowers grow on Mars.

Scrutinizer · 01-26-2002, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CodeMason:
1. pi is irrational.
2. Flying pigs are irrational.
3. Therefore flowers grow on Mars.

You're right, that is a non sequitur. If, however, the conclusion became "flowers grow on Jupiter", the argument would become valid.

Regards,

- Scrutinizer

Kenny · 01-26-2002, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
I find it odd that 99Percent never addressed Kenny's observation about how terrible the initial syllogism is.

I’m not sure if 99Percent really meant to construct a valid syllogism. Hence the wording of my original post: “I hope this is not an attempt on your part to construct a valid syllogism.” It could have been a subtle attempt to parody how theists supposedly reason. Of course, if it is, it’s still a rather poor attempt and the creation of a nice little strawman in my opinion. However, if it was a parody, I would have thought that 99Percent would have clarified by now.

Quote:

Even worse is Foxhole Atheist's:

I’m fairly certain that Foxhole Atheist’s was a joke.

Quote:

This entire thread is a disgrace to atheists.

I won’t argue with that.

God Bless,
Kenny

Kenny · 01-26-2002, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scrutinizer:
<strong>

You're right, that is a non sequitur. If, however, the conclusion became "flowers grow on Jupiter", the argument would become valid.

Regards,

- Scrutinizer</strong>

But if flowers grew on Jupiter, then blue unicorns would orbit mars.
As everyone knows, no blue unicorns orbit mars (since all unicorns are pink).
Therefore, no flowers grow on Jupiter.

God Bless,
Kenny

Kenny · 01-26-2002, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 99Percent:
Then why do theist believe in the irrational like life after death, or that Jesus can walk on water or that he converted water into wine?

Merely defining concepts that you disagree with as irrational doesn't make for much of an argument.

God Bless,
Kenny

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01-25-2002, 11:09 AM	#12
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	Then man went on to prove that black is white, night is day, and promptly got run over by a bus while crossing the street.

01-26-2002, 02:24 PM	#13
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	kenny: As theists, we believe that the universe is the result of a rational plan and, hence, a rational place. We don�t �want to live in an irrational world,� nor do we believe that it is one. Then why do theist believe in the irrational like life after death, or that Jesus can walk on water or that he converted water into wine?

01-26-2002, 06:17 PM	#16
CodeMason Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 226	Yes, 3 most certainly does not follow from 1 and 2, it's an establishment of false correlation. 4 does not follow from the premises either. Your whole argument is a bit like saying: 1. pi is irrational. 2. Flying pigs are irrational. 3. Therefore flowers grow on Mars.

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