HelenM

Oh, then that's ironic because there are posts on Sec Web that are wayyyy too long for me. I never thought of mine as in that category

I like the short ones too. Maybe I should remember that when I put mine together

love
Helen

The AntiChris

I wondered when you'd pick up on this.

My interpretation of the meaning of "murder fantasy" in your post was the kind of thoughts most of us have had on occasion when contemplating the fate of someone who we felt had deeply wronged us (particularly if this "wrong" included an element of humiliation). In this sense then I suspect these revenge fantasies, so long as they do not become obsessive, can in some way be "therapeutic".

An alternative interpretation is that you meant a fantasy in which perverse pleasure is derived purely from the notion of killing someone (anyone). If this is what you meant, then I would have the same concerns about anyone admitting to such fantasies.

Chris

HelenM

Yes, I'd say I run through responses in my head to people with whom I'm annoyed, that I never actually say to them. (And I'm usually glad I never did say those things - and I often do say something later, but 'toned down' - so it's not as if I'm avoiding mentioning what upset me entirely)

I do that but I don't fantasize mutilating them with an ax or anything like that.

I'd put what I don't do in the same category of 'reprehensible' as rape but - of course - what I do do is entirely different .

Seriously though, it has been a challenge to me about my attitude about others, to consider whether being angry towards someone is the same as wanting to see some painful misfortune come upon them - I mean, is it that I really don't have a problem with them being hurt - it's just that I am too cowardly to do it myself, perhaps?

Do people who find rape fantasies inconceivable simply have less imagination than those who fantasize about it?

love
Helen

Cutter

Hmm, well personally I'd categorise murder fantasies as being anything from wishing someone were dead in a childish fit of pique (and who hasn't had one of those) to actually contemplating how you'd kill someone who'd really pissed you off, or made your life hell (i.e. bullies), etc.

As for deriving perverse pleasure from such fantasies, I have to admit I'll side with you on this one. For me, my violent fantasies have always been about venting pent up aggression in a non-violent manner. The only real pleasure I take from them is feeling calmer afterwards. Deriving genuine pleasure from the details of the fantasy is perhaps just a few short steps away from living out the fantasy.

But then again, maybe not. For all you or I know, there could be people who really delight in their violent fantasies but never even come close to living them out.

The AntiChris

Whilst I agree that censorship of erotic material leads to much hypocrisy in society, you should not make the mistake of linking this with the prevalence of rape. It is a myth that rape is primarily a sexual act. Rape is predominantly to do with the need to exercise power and inflict violence and has little to do with sexual gratification.

I have a couple of comments on your previous post.

I agree completely.

I think you're confusing thinking about a deed and fantasizing about the deed.

It seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable to for one to be able to imaginine the consequences of rape or torture (or war) without actually receiving sexual stimulation or a buzz from the notion.

Chris

The AntiChris

You're making the same mistake as Christopher Lord. Of course I can imagine the the act of rape, but do I lack imagination because I cannot conceive of gaining pleasure from the pain and humiliation of my victim?

Chris

HelenM

I think that's an important distinction and I'm glad you made it.

However, my understanding of 'fantasy' has never included simply imagining/conceiving/considering the effect of an act such as rape, on others.

I wouldn't call that 'fantasizing' either.

My question that you quoted I was thinking of fantasizing as in, we think about ourselves doing something and how we'd feel int doing it.

I don't see why that would be connected with the type of imagining where we consider, abstractly, the effects of something like rape, on another person.

I do understand the difference even if I wasn't clear that I did

love
Helen

The AntiChris

HelenSL

That's what I assumed.

I'm intrigued to know what your visualisation is of a typical male rape fantasy.

If, as I suspect, it's a "sanitised" notion of pure sexual gatification where the suffering of the victim is not allowed to intrude, would this not suggest that it is the rape fantasist who lacks imagination?

In any event, such a fantasy is so far removed the reality of rape in the real world, it seems absurd to call such a flight of fancy a "rape fantasy".

Chris

HelenM

The AntiChris

HelenSL

This comment does tend to suggest that you know very little of the real nature of rape.

Chris