lcb

toto, lcb is defintitely not a fundy.I finally just figured out what 'fundy' means)....radical islam just murdered 3,000 americans but do i see toto over on the islam boards debating the reliability of the Koran with them? probably not....and since we are supposed to all be post doctorate level intellectuals here, my question for toto is why isnt toto over on the islam boards debating the reliability of the koran with them? is islam a political force which you find disturbing?

Vorkosigan

4. as to VOrk..i am surprised that as an intellectual you are so luddite when it comes to game theory, and also the ad hominem from you-perhaps you could tell all of us what YOUR area of brilliant research is and how it will enlighten mankind since my research is-as you say "pure bullshit"..people who live in academic glass houses shouldn't throw stones...and shhh(dont tell the folks in operations research that game theory cant be applied to historical military scenarios!!!-thatswhat many of them are doing as we speak full time)so how about you let me spend my research stipend how i see fit and you spend yours as you see fit..okay?

My misreading. I read you to be saying that you were research game theory and prophecy. I apologize for my comments.

Vorkosigan

lcb

apology accepted..hey can you still get mongolian barbecue at mama Lin's in taipei? mongolian barbecue at Mama Lin's washed down with ice cold beer is proof that there is a God!!!!

Vorkosigan

Sad, but I have never been there. I've always been a potsticker and beef noodle guy myself. I live in Taichung now, and if Kaohsiung is a cultural desert, Taichung is the Empty Quarter. Taipei is really a nice place to live now, but not on my salary.

Vorkosigan

lcb

o/t i know, the taiwanese people are some of the warmest, kindest people i ever met overseas. it pains my heart to know that the U.S. is going to abandon those people...(the spineless bastards at the Navy War College have already worked out the plan for abandoning taiwan to the Chinese)( a modern neo-sphere of influence trade off deal-very sad)...the taiwanese have a plan to go down fighting though..i probably shouldnt say it but it has to do with some 'foreign surplus purchases' sitting quietly on the bottom off the taiwanese coast.Some friendly advice brother, if you arent stationed there or unless you have a 'numba won' taiwanese girflfriend whose daddy owns a liquor store, I would get the hell out of taiwan probably before 2,007, if not sooner.consider this a prophecy from lcb.

Toto

I don't go to the Christian boards to debate Christians - I only debate them because they come here and make unsupportable claims. If enough Muslims came to these Boards, I might learn enough about Islam to debate it.

Islam is a very minor force in American politics, which is all that I can influence.

Vorkosigan

o/t i know, the taiwanese people are some of the warmest, kindest people i ever met overseas. it pains my heart to know that the U.S. is going to abandon those people...(the spineless bastards at the Navy War College have already worked out the plan for abandoning taiwan to the Chinese)( a modern neo-sphere of influence trade off deal-very sad)

Time will revenge those pricks, though, when they have to fight their next war against Chinese who cannot be bottled up by control of the Japan-Formosa-Luzon perimeter.

...the taiwanese have a plan to go down fighting though..i probably shouldnt say it but it has to do with some 'foreign surplus purchases' sitting quietly on the bottom off the taiwanese coast.

Alas, the local military will be the first institution to welcome the Chinese. Or that's the way I read it. You may not have had a chance to follow the steady stream of retirees from the government and military who return to China and sell secrets to Beijing. The mainlanders are shits, and hate Taiwan.

Some friendly advice brother, if you arent stationed there or unless you have a 'numba won' taiwanese girflfriend whose daddy owns a liquor store, I would get the hell out of taiwan probably before 2,007, if not sooner.consider this a prophecy from lcb.

We plan to leave around 2008. I suspect that any action will come sooner than that, though, because Jiang wants Taiwan. And I doubt the Taiwanese will fight. I've been living here 8 of the last 12 years, and worked for the independence movement. Taiwan simply has no sense of its own identity. The Taiwanese pride themselves on their "pragmatism" and will sell out to the Chinese rather than fight a losing battle against hopeless odds.

We're way OT, here, though.

Vorkosigan

lcb

Toto, I'm curious, with your over 3,000 posts proseltyzing atheism, where in the threat calculus do you see American christianity as opposed to the Chinese military buildup, the Russian nuclear weapons components black market,the Iraq/iran/syrian/libyan/north korean nuclear weapons progression,india/pakistan, radical islamic terrorism, global warming, the aids pandemic, the untenable stock market bubble,the pandemic of single mothers living in poverty,the pandemic of drug and alcohol addiction, child prostitution in asia,slavery in Sudan, world hunger, the lack of third world medical care, etc? (since wars and rumors of wars, famine, and plagues and pestilences, and pharmacopeia(drug addiction)and adultery/sexual exploitation,etc are not prophecies-just

permanent and foreseeable fixtures of humanity)and thus (since there is no God) it is incumbent upon enligtened intellectuals to solve these problems.....what are you doing here sitting typing on the internet? (orphanges need help, doctors without borders needs help,big brothers big sisters, meals on wheels,medical missionary clinics,etc...)

since you are absolutely, to an absolute certainty, sure there is no God and christians are all just superstitious idiots, what an inefficient use of resources to even talk to these superstitious folk, as opposed to using the time to help solve pressing human problems....and subsumed within that-what is the efficiency in talking endlessly to other atheists about atheism, when the other atheists could be using these resources to help other human beings out (because obviuously there is no one else to help them)?

Toto

I had to format this to follow it:

Okay - how do I tie all this together?

When I was younger, full of idealism, I wanted to save the world. I found there was not very much I could do, especially without understanding it. I ended up making a living with computers and sending occasional contributions to organizations that to good works. That seems to be my contribution, at this point in my life.

You have not read my over 3000 posts. I do not spend much time proselytzing atheism. I genuinely don't care if my fellow citizens believe in some transcendant god, or goddess, or the Force, or whatever. I draw the line when distorted religious thinking makes life worse for everyone.

Thinking that Biblical prophecy means something and the end times are coming is distorted thinking that gets in the way of solving real problems.

So let's look at your little list of horrors that something should be done about instead of working for atheism:

• Chinese military buildup,
  
  What would I do about this? China is still a long way from being a military threat to the US.
  
• the Russian nuclear weapons components black market,
  
  Again, what would I do about this if I weren't sitting at my computer?
• the Iraq/iran/syrian/libyan/north korean nuclear weapons progression,
  
  Ditto
• india/pakistan,
  
  A religious dispute. A good argument for secularism.
• radical islamic terrorism,
  
  Another faith-based atrocity and a good argument for atheism
  
• global warming,
  
  A real problem that the US government, under the influence of the unelected Christian right - Big Oil coalition represented by GW Bush and the Republican Party, is refusing to address.
  
• the aids pandemic,
  
  A public health problem. My local atheist group participates in AIDS Walk in Los Angeles to raise money for AIDS Project LA. We use the slogan "God didn't cause it, prayer won't cure it." Certainly one of the main impediments to containing or curing AIDS has been fundamentalist Christian attitudes - that AIDS is punishment from God, that using birth control, including condoms, is immoral, that sex should not be discussed in public schools, that sex education should be limited to preaching abstinence.
• the untenable stock market bubble,
  
  And what should I do about that? Stock market bubbles tend to be self-correcting.
  
  
• the pandemic of single mothers living in poverty,
  
  It is the Christian right that has kept information on birth control or abortion from these women, and that tried to eliminate welfare, and wants to force them into the labor force instead of subsidizing their education.
  
  
• the pandemic of drug and alcohol addiction,
  
  Another pubic health problem. Religious preaching hasn't helped one bit. Religious-based prohibitions from the original Prohibition to our current drug laws, seem to be making the matter worse. Secular programs for alcoholism and drug use are as effective as the religious 12 step programs.
  
  
• child prostitution in asia,
  
  Again, what should I do? I'm willing to bet that some of the johns are good Christians. Also that the roots of the problem are in religious-based sexual repression.
  
• slavery in Sudan,
  
  Another world problem that I can't do much about.
  
  
• world hunger,
  
  The Religious Right has fought birth control, which is an important component of managing world hunger.
  
• the lack of third world medical care
  
  I send money to Doctors Without Borders. I can't stand the sight of blood, so that's about the best I can do.
  

So of the 14 items you list, ~7 are issues that could be helped if there were less religion, or less fundamentalist religion, in the world. Perhaps the best contribution I can make to world welfare is sitting at my computer fighting religion.

I think you have come up with another crypto-Christian argument. I think you are going through some list of reasons to be a Christian. Why don't you come clean and say what you believe?

[ August 03, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

lcb

okay toto, you come clean first..then I will!