Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JaeIsGod · 07-19-2003, 01:11 PM

A piece of advice: Make sure you have a solid wall to bang your head against if needed. It makes dealing with fundies a bit easier.

Charlie · 07-19-2003, 01:14 PM

Rational BAC,
What you said is nice to hear! And it's even better coming from a believer!
Charlie

Charlie · 07-19-2003, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scandal
Charlie,

Although I believe in God I too hate the idea of religion encroaching on our government.

How can we prevent this when judges and senators are influenced by their religious beliefs? I guess we demand absolute separation of church and state.

Yes Scandal,
And its probably a very hard thing to do, separate their beliefs from their work. Because, from what I've seen most believers believe their religion to be more than just belief.. they view it as part of reality.
Very happy to see you, a believer, being for separation of church and state!!!

Do you think there are many like you (Religionists who are in support of separation of church and state)??
Charlie

Rev. Joshua · 07-19-2003, 01:33 PM

Charlie,

Traditionally baptists have been some of the strongest proponents of separation of church and state.

See for instance The Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs

Joshua

streamline · 07-19-2003, 01:45 PM

...thanks all for the replies to my earlier lament. I suspected as much regarding fellow atheists and incessant wall-banging, but it never feels bad to hear one isn't alone.

I am heartened to see the enlightened responses by some (obviously, level-headed) theists. Yes, I have utter and absolute disdain for the notion of a personal god -- and the mystical and/or armchair metaphysician approaches to reality, as well -- but that is NOT the same thing as disdain for (all or most) of the individuals who might try to shoehorn such ideas into their worldviews. Well ... I do not have an especially difficult time being civil and friendly with such people, anyhow. My ire and angst is raised by the intrusive brand of theist, the one who doesn't think twice about imposing his or her beliefs onto everyone else. The fact that this country currently has a dim-wit President (and his Cabinet) who consults the Judeo-Christian Bible for advice, and considers Billy Graham a close confidant and advisor, scares the shit out of me.

I suppose that along with the theist who attempts to hijack the public square, I also have zero patience for the True Believer who, out of either sheer ignorance or calculated deceit, attempts to inject his or her faith-based beliefs into science. There never seems to be any shortage of these types around to drive me crazy. :banghead:

captainpabst · 07-19-2003, 11:38 PM

streamline - sometimes i feel as you do. then i pour myself a manhattan.

ComestibleVenom · 07-20-2003, 12:37 AM

The funny thing about modern life is how small is the role left for a supposedly all-powerful benevolent creator.

God is not the problem, faith remains the problem.

Scandal · 07-20-2003, 08:19 AM

Hi Charlie,

A few believers I know are definitely for separation of church and state. These people do not belong to an organized religion though.

Charlie · 07-21-2003, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rev. Joshua
Charlie,

Traditionally baptists have been some of the strongest proponents of separation of church and state.

See for instance The Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs

Joshua

Rev. Joshua,
Very nice! Does this mean that you and many Baptists agree that "under God" should be removed from our pledge and prayer should not be in schools?
Sincerely,
Charlie

TomboyMom · 07-21-2003, 07:45 AM

You're right, it's exasperating. The good news is you're not crazy. They are out there by the millions promulgating and propagating.

The other good news is: we feel your pain. Literally! The exact same pain. At least you're not alone.

Also I think atheism, freethinking and agonisticism are on the increase. So although our gains are small, we are making them.

Hang in there!

Rene

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07-19-2003, 01:11 PM	#11
JaeIsGod Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 760	A piece of advice: Make sure you have a solid wall to bang your head against if needed. It makes dealing with fundies a bit easier.

07-19-2003, 01:14 PM	#12
Charlie Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 75	Rational BAC, What you said is nice to hear! And it's even better coming from a believer! Charlie

07-19-2003, 01:33 PM	#14
Rev. Joshua Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta Posts: 63	Charlie, Traditionally baptists have been some of the strongest proponents of separation of church and state. See for instance The Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs Joshua

07-19-2003, 01:45 PM	#15
streamline Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 77	...thanks all for the replies to my earlier lament. I suspected as much regarding fellow atheists and incessant wall-banging, but it never feels bad to hear one isn't alone. I am heartened to see the enlightened responses by some (obviously, level-headed) theists. Yes, I have utter and absolute disdain for the notion of a personal god -- and the mystical and/or armchair metaphysician approaches to reality, as well -- but that is NOT the same thing as disdain for (all or most) of the individuals who might try to shoehorn such ideas into their worldviews. Well ... I do not have an especially difficult time being civil and friendly with such people, anyhow. My ire and angst is raised by the intrusive brand of theist, the one who doesn't think twice about imposing his or her beliefs onto everyone else. The fact that this country currently has a dim-wit President (and his Cabinet) who consults the Judeo-Christian Bible for advice, and considers Billy Graham a close confidant and advisor, scares the shit out of me. I suppose that along with the theist who attempts to hijack the public square, I also have zero patience for the True Believer who, out of either sheer ignorance or calculated deceit, attempts to inject his or her faith-based beliefs into science. There never seems to be any shortage of these types around to drive me crazy. :banghead:

07-19-2003, 11:38 PM	#16
captainpabst Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 200	streamline - sometimes i feel as you do. then i pour myself a manhattan.

07-20-2003, 12:37 AM	#17
ComestibleVenom Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,320	The funny thing about modern life is how small is the role left for a supposedly all-powerful benevolent creator. God is not the problem, faith remains the problem.

07-20-2003, 08:19 AM	#18
Scandal Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 131	Hi Charlie, A few believers I know are definitely for separation of church and state. These people do not belong to an organized religion though.

07-21-2003, 07:45 AM	#20
TomboyMom Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,931	You're right, it's exasperating. The good news is you're not crazy. They are out there by the millions promulgating and propagating. The other good news is: we feel your pain. Literally! The exact same pain. At least you're not alone. Also I think atheism, freethinking and agonisticism are on the increase. So although our gains are small, we are making them. Hang in there! Rene

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