Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DamagedGoods · 03-25-2002, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
Ah yes, the Library of Babel. There are [x(1321000)]^25 books in the library, where x is the number of possible characters on the spine. The description of the library given is extremely unrealistic though.

That description made my head hurt. Maybe that's because I was up too late when I tried to read it, but it just seemed to be excruciatingly detailed, and for no apparent reason.

Hell, I couldn't see any purpose to the entire description - maybe I'm just a simpleton who can't grasp the beautiful complexity of his writings. Or maybe I'm just somebody who's not impressed by pointless complexity. Hard to tell.

Draygomb · 03-25-2002, 04:11 AM

The problem isn't that the number of birds is indefinate (You saw however many birds you saw. Let's say it was 5). The problem is that you just don't remember the event well enough to be able to say for sure there were just 5 birds.

03-25-2002, 02:58 PM

Draygomb,

Quote:

The problem isn't that the number of birds is indefinate (You saw however many birds you saw. Let's say it was 5). The problem is that you just don't remember the event well enough to be able to say for sure there were just 5 birds.

It is possible for our brains to represent a washing machine without ever representing what brand of machine it is. This isn't a matter of not looking at the machine closely enough, the simple fact is that the brain never bothers with that detail, it doesn't invent it. If we did dream such a washing machine and found what brand it was, our brain would have added the representation of a specific variety of washing machine.

Similarly, if we looked with "our mind's eye" and found that there were 5 birds, the very act of finding that there were 5, would CREATE 5 birds. If we never bother to count them, there is simply no fact of the matter, no qualia to count.

tronvillain · 03-25-2002, 04:40 PM

Draycomb:

Quote:

The problem isn't that the number of birds is indefinate (You saw however many birds you saw. Let's say it was 5). The problem is that you just don't remember the event well enough to be able to say for sure there were just 5 birds.

Well, that was the first possibility I mentioned, but as I mentioned before, the number of birds being indefinite appears to be real possibility.

DarkDruid · 03-25-2002, 09:11 PM

So... basically, this guy didn't know how many birds he saw... therefore, God exists?

What!?

I didn't know what color that volkswagen was that cut me off on the freeway this morning. It was sort of Blue and Green, but it was not-blue and not-green and not-aqua. Therefore, Jeebus is lord.

03-25-2002, 10:01 PM

I suspect the argument derives it's power from the intimidating name.
...
Can we see ?-1 birds?

DamagedGoods · 03-26-2002, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Synaesthesia:
I suspect the argument derives it's power from the intimidating name.

I'm not familiar enough with Latin to figure out the precise meaning of its name - what is it, something like "Argument From Bird-Logic?"

99Percent · 03-26-2002, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DamagedGoods:


I'm not familiar enough with Latin to figure out the precise meaning of its name - what is it, something like "Argument From Bird-Logic?"

Yeah, I also thought that. I think JLB is playing a dirty intellectual trick on us. Maybe he is a closet atheist

lpetrich · 03-26-2002, 09:49 PM

It's the argument from the study of birds; I think that Jorge Luis Borges was trying to have a bit of fun at the expense of typical theological arguments.

DarkDruid · 03-28-2002, 08:32 PM

How about "arguement from bird-brained logic?"

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03-25-2002, 04:11 AM	#12
Draygomb Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Harrisburg, Pa Posts: 3,251	The problem isn't that the number of birds is indefinate (You saw however many birds you saw. Let's say it was 5). The problem is that you just don't remember the event well enough to be able to say for sure there were just 5 birds.

03-25-2002, 09:11 PM	#15
DarkDruid Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 131	So... basically, this guy didn't know how many birds he saw... therefore, God exists? What!? I didn't know what color that volkswagen was that cut me off on the freeway this morning. It was sort of Blue and Green, but it was not-blue and not-green and not-aqua. Therefore, Jeebus is lord.

03-25-2002, 10:01 PM	#16
Synaesthesia Guest Posts: n/a	I suspect the argument derives it's power from the intimidating name. ... Can we see ?-1 birds?

03-26-2002, 09:49 PM	#19
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	It's the argument from the study of birds; I think that Jorge Luis Borges was trying to have a bit of fun at the expense of typical theological arguments.

03-28-2002, 08:32 PM	#20
DarkDruid Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 131	How about "arguement from bird-brained logic?"

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