Freethought & Rationalism Archive

free12thinker · 04-10-2002, 11:57 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vixstile:
[QB]

Vixstile: How can you be so sure that homosexuality did not exist before civilization? There is nothing immoral about homosexuality.

vixstile · 04-10-2002, 12:08 PM

[quote]Originally posted by free12thinker:

Quote:

Originally posted by vixstile:
[QB]

Vixstile: How can you be so sure that homosexuality did not exist before civilization? There is nothing immoral about homosexuality.

I didnt say that, shamon did

vixstile · 04-10-2002, 12:15 PM

Quote:

-free12thinker-
Morality is a way of thinking and to deem something immoral or moral has to come with reasoning and logic. That much is obvious to free thinker who refuse to deem something immoral simply because a deity said it was.
That said, I believe the human condition in itself dictates morality. In this, I mean that universal morals have always been the same (murder is immoral) (love is moral) based on how the actions affect the human condition. Do they make us feel good, or do they negatively impact us. Anrea Yates negatively impacted her five kids. This should be obvious to anyone. And though she may've seen some good in the actions, the bad was universal.

We can't control the reasoning of others. We can simply look to protect those who need protection. And that includes everyone, regardless of age, color, race, yada yada yada. Universal morality protects them. I keep using Universal because there are acts and practices which are deemed immoral to some and moral to others, and are therefore NOT universal.

But a simple reason and logic approach can render a simple answer. If you are doing something that negatively impacts someone else, beliefs aside, than it is immoral. It affects societies ability to function in peace. But homosexuality, casual sex, prostitution, gambling, marijuanna; they do not.

Implying pleasure always=moral and pain always=immoral is completely objective

free12thinker · 04-10-2002, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vixstile:


I didnt say that, shamon did

Vixstile: I deeply apologize. My eyes deceived me. So I will throw that question to Shamon, instead.

free12thinker · 04-10-2002, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vixstile:


Implying pleasure always=moral and pain always=immoral is completely objective

Objective as in impartial or neutral? If this is what you mean, I have to disagree. Negative is negative, or positive is positive. depending on who the action is directed towards. Of course, a negative impact on one person may not be a negative impact on another. Example: Some college fraternities have rugged initiations that people deem immoral because they negatively impact the person trying to get into the fraternity. But that person may not object to the initiation so that doesn't make it immoral. And if that person to whom the action directed is not hurt, than whether or not I find it negative is irrelevant.

vixstile · 04-10-2002, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by free12thinker:


Objective as in impartial or neutral? If this is what you mean, I have to disagree.

No, Subjective as in impartial or neutral. Objective implies universal absolutes

vixstile · 04-10-2002, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by free12thinker:


Vixstile: I deeply apologize. My eyes deceived me. So I will throw that question to Shamon, instead.

in shamons defence,i dont think that is what shamon was saying

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04-10-2002, 11:57 AM	#11
free12thinker Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: DC Metropolitan Area Posts: 417	[QUOTE]Originally posted by vixstile: [QB] Vixstile: How can you be so sure that homosexuality did not exist before civilization? There is nothing immoral about homosexuality.

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