HelenM

Thanks for your comments, Buffman

Actually, I don't know any Christians who believe they can blame Satan so completely for evil that they are absolved of personal responsibility for their own wrongdoing.

But I appreciate you taking time to respond and share your thoughts

take care
Helen

christ-on-a-stick

Howdy Helen,
I'm glad that you don't (sincerely). Unfortunately, I do - my own mother (not my grandmother who raised me, who I sometimes refer to here as my mom, but my bio mother).

She steadfastly maintains that her
a) abandoning us (her 3 daughters at ages 2,4 & 6 - I was 2)
b) emotionally tormenting us for as she popped in and out of our lives unpredictably for the next five years
c) disappearing completely and spending the next-10+ years drinking, drugging and ignoring us completely

... were all solely caused by SAAAATAN and the fact that she had "turned away from Jebus" (sorry for the sarcasm... soft spot here as you can probably tell).

Sure she says she's "sorry" but that's still her excuse. THE DEVIL MADE HER DO IT!!! (Couldn't have had *anything* to do with her own dysfunctional childhood or anything... that would mean that, eegads, maybe she should get some therapy or something instead of just going to church 5 times a week!!!)

Eek... that was kind of a rant.... but I find it sad and unfortunate that the above (her absolute refusal to take personal responsibilty without the "devil made me do it" caveat is the single biggest reason that we have essentially no relationship now, despite her desire to.

(and yes in case you were wondering I have sought my own therapy - rather extensive in fact! - for these issues).

Lauri

P.S. EDITED TO ADD - Buffman - This paragraph reminded me so much of her (my mom) that I got goosebumps!!!

HelenM

*sigh* I'm sorry, christ-on-a-stick

Thanks for your response. I hope your counseling has helped you move beyond where your Mom's issues mess up your own life.

Helen

christ-on-a-stick

Thanks, Helen .

I have indeed been fortunate to find a great therapist last year that has helped me come a *long* way in dealing with these issues, so long buried in a way. I am at the point now that despite the occasional outburst of indignation (as above! ), in my day-to-day life I have come to terms with most of my issues with her. I'm sure it will be a continuing journey but for now it's not interfering with my life and pursuit of happiness, so I am grateful for that!

Lauri

Marduk

"It's scary for some people to contemplate simply not existing anymore."

I would say that it's impossible to contemplate not existing!

Buffman

HelenM

[b]Buffman: Why else was/is it necessary to create a Satan/Evil to explain negative(bad) consequences...if not to absolve oneself from personal responsibility?

HelenM: Actually, I don't know any Christians who believe they can blame Satan so completely for evil that they are absolved of personal responsibility for their own wrongdoing.

My question was "Why ELSE was/is it necessary to create Satan/Evil?" My speculation was that the reason went beyond just having a readily available icon on which to heap the blame for any and everything that went wrong/badly in the world and in human affairs.

So why do you think that humans created Satan/Evil? Of course we could get right to the basic issue. If a so-called God (with many names) did not create Satan/Evil, then who did? I obviously believe that humans had to create a representation of bad/wrong (Satan-Evil) in order to provide justification for the supernatural existance of what they considered to be the Creator of everything good/right (God-Love).

(Aside: Helen, I have known far too many overly devout and zealous Christians who did, and do, use Satan-Evil to "HELP" justify their own lack of knowledge or fear of the unknown rather than accept personal responsibility. Sorry!)

Abacus

If it was used for pornography, I'm pretty sure it will go to RAM hell.

lugotorix

True, but the same is true of your moment-to-moment existence in this life. You're not exactly the same person as the baby you were when you drew your first breath, nor the same as the person that will be exhaling your last. There is a long stream of moments from the former to the latter that is connected by cause-and-effect. The fact that you can't "step in the same river twice" doesn't rule out the possibility of some form of afterlife any more than it rules out the possibility of this one.

As far as the karma business goes, the standard Buddhist explanation of the afterlife (technically, the 'in-between lives') is that a person's conciousness is a type of coarse awareness that will give way to a more subtle stream of awareness as the person dies. This is what exists in the interval between one life and the next and is what people undergoing NDEs experience. Its eventual rebirth into another being is determined by the sum of all its past karma, which acts as a type of momentum driving the movement toward rebirth.

Whether this is true or not I can't say, not being currently dead. (Have to admit I'm curious, but not that curious.)

lugotorix

muon

Supposing for a second that there isn't some naturalistic explanation for what you experienced, it seems to me that life after death isn't an obvious explanation either. For example:

1) Suppose it was a non-physical spirit. That doesn't mean that *we* become non-physical spirits when we die. For all I know the universe could be chock-full of species of non-physical critters that we normally can't see. Their existence or non-existence wouldn't tell me anything about what happens to humans when they die.
2) Perhaps you've encountered H.G. Wells' "Invisible Man".
3) Perhaps you have latent psychic powers, and your unconscious mind caused these things to happen through telekinesis.

Honestly I don't believe any of these things. But nor do I see why this kind of experience would lead one to believe in life after death---there's no obvious connection that I can see.

Shadowy Man

It's the same connection that makes UFOs equal to alien spacecraft.

Someone has already developed an interpretation for what you see so it's just easiest to accept that as an explanation.