Freethought & Rationalism Archive

StrongMan · 10-12-2002, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ManM:
So that we all might have eternal life.

So, I don't have eternal life burning for eternity in hell? It seems to me that eternal life if a given, it's just about where you're going to spend it.

It may not be a great life but it is still a life in as much as spending eternity in Heaven is a life. So why did Jesus die for our sins?

Philosoft · 10-12-2002, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:
[To Buffman]

...spoken by a person of the highest sophistication, I'm sure.

Vanderzyden

You, sir, are a complete hypocrite. I hope your stay here at the SecWeb is nasty, brutish and short.

Dr. Retard · 10-13-2002, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vanderzyden:


There is yet a third alternative: both. A follower of Christ knows full well that he is a creature of pride. I realize that may still yet sound confusing, so let me know if you would like to know more (by asking pointed questions).

Vanderzyden

Again, it's the "[r]ather" that's confusing. Are you now taking back the suggested contrast between a Christian and a creature of pride? Or was it never there?

Jack the Bodiless · 10-14-2002, 01:43 AM

Furthermore, only a "creature of pride" finds the punishment of innocents for the crimes of others repulsive?

This implies that a "true Christian" must have no morality or sense of justice whatsoever. Christians must suspend judgement on moral issues: to simply trust that "God knows what he's doing".

I guess that's consistent with much of what the Bible teaches (e.g. Job, or the "they must have deserved it, even the kids" attitude of apologetics towards Biblical atrocities). But does this mean that the Christians who opposed slavery were heretics? What about those who believe that rape is wrong?

And what about those who argue that our moral conscience comes from God? Why would God give us all a conscience and then instruct Christians to ignore it?

And how can Christians describe God as "benevolent"? They must excise the very faculty which allows them to distinguish benevolence from malevolence. To a "true Christian", this phrase would be meaningless gibberish.

I have noticed the "psychopath problem" in debates with fundamentalist Christians on numerous occasions: they seem totally unable to distinguish between what normal folks call "good" and "evil". Are you saying this "moral lobotomy" is a requirement of the religion, and can you cite the appropriate Biblical verses?

Keith Russell · 10-14-2002, 08:27 AM

Jack:

Agreed. Religion (especially Christianity) seems to create precisely this kind of schizophrenia; the willingness to accept any kind of harmful event, injustice, or even 'evil' as simply part of 'God's plan' (and thus acceptable)--yet damn pride in human achievement or simple good will as 'evil', 'sinful'--or at best, irrelevant and ephemeral.

When one accepts that belief should take precedence over 'works', one no longer has any reason to oppose evil.

Keith.

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10-14-2002, 01:43 AM	#54
Jack the Bodiless Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: UK Posts: 5,815	Furthermore, only a "creature of pride" finds the punishment of innocents for the crimes of others repulsive? This implies that a "true Christian" must have no morality or sense of justice whatsoever. Christians must suspend judgement on moral issues: to simply trust that "God knows what he's doing". I guess that's consistent with much of what the Bible teaches (e.g. Job, or the "they must have deserved it, even the kids" attitude of apologetics towards Biblical atrocities). But does this mean that the Christians who opposed slavery were heretics? What about those who believe that rape is wrong? And what about those who argue that our moral conscience comes from God? Why would God give us all a conscience and then instruct Christians to ignore it? And how can Christians describe God as "benevolent"? They must excise the very faculty which allows them to distinguish benevolence from malevolence. To a "true Christian", this phrase would be meaningless gibberish. I have noticed the "psychopath problem" in debates with fundamentalist Christians on numerous occasions: they seem totally unable to distinguish between what normal folks call "good" and "evil". Are you saying this "moral lobotomy" is a requirement of the religion, and can you cite the appropriate Biblical verses?

10-14-2002, 08:27 AM	#55
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Jack: Agreed. Religion (especially Christianity) seems to create precisely this kind of schizophrenia; the willingness to accept any kind of harmful event, injustice, or even 'evil' as simply part of 'God's plan' (and thus acceptable)--yet damn pride in human achievement or simple good will as 'evil', 'sinful'--or at best, irrelevant and ephemeral. When one accepts that belief should take precedence over 'works', one no longer has any reason to oppose evil. Keith.

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