Freethought & Rationalism Archive

excreationist · 07-15-2002, 05:38 AM

Tonight on Australia's "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" show, they asked a question about that. I think they said the correct answer was "In God We Trust".

Sites like <a href="http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/trade/ameconom/pt7.htm" target="_blank">usinfo.state.gov</a> ['All U.S. currency carries the nation's official motto, "In God We Trust."'] and <a href="http://www.in.gov/legislative/homepages/S39/letsroll2-1-2.htm" target="_blank">in.gov</a> ['Senate Bill 89 calls for the official motto of the United States, "In God We Trust," to be displayed in every public school classroom.'] agree.

<a href="http://home.woh.rr.com/cofa/essays/christian_nation.html" target="_blank">"A Christian Nation" - By Dread</a> says this though:

Quote:

...The official motto was "E Pluribus Enum", which actually means "From many, one". This motto was a testament that the country was and is united as one people. If it wasn't for several religious people, it probably would still be the motto today. A law was passed by Congress, in 1955, to have all currency minted with the words "In God We Trust". In 1956, Congress retired this motto for "In God We Trust, during the McCarthy era to dispel Communistic thoughts...

That is the only relevant google match I got with enum and "official motto".

So it looks like the official national motto really is "In God We Trust"! I hope you Americans are living out your motto!

(well not really...)

Edit:

Well it seems that the old motto is supposed to be spelt "E Pluribus Unum".

Doing a <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%22official+motto%22+unum&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT F-8&oe=UTF-8&start=10&sa=N" target="_blank">google search for "official motto" and unum</a> I get 83 matches... when searching for <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22official+motto%22+%22in+god+we+trust%22" target="_blank">"official motto" and "in god we trust"</a> I get 320 matches.

More quotes from sites:
<a href="http://www.cwnews.com/Browse/2000/07/13512.htm" target="_blank">Catholic World News</a>:

Quote:

The US House of Representatives voted on Monday to encourage the public display of the country's official motto, "In God We Trust."

<a href="http://detnews.com/2002/oakland/0201/09/c04-385945.htm" target="_blank">The Detroit News</a>:

Quote:

Schools are also being courted to display the phrase, which became the official motto of the United States in 1956 by an act of Congress.

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/sta_mott.htm" target="_blank">ReligiousTolerance.org - U.S. state mottos</a>:

Quote:

There are four states with mottos that mention "God." Most people would probably regard them as being religious mottos:
- Arizona: "Ditat Deus" This means "God Enriches in Latin."
- Florida's: "In God We Trust." -- identical to the current national motto
- Ohio: "With God, All Things Are Possible." This is a direct biblical quotation from the King James Version of Matthew 19:25-26: "When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
- South Dakota's: "Under God, The People Rule."

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm" target="_blank">ReligiousTolerance.org - U.S. national mottos</a>:

Quote:

The original national motto: "E Pluribus Unum"....
The replacement motto: "In God We Trust:"....
Is the motto constitutional?....
Is the current motto suitable?....
Biblical basis for the "In God We Trust" motto:..., etc

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: excreationist ]

GaryP · 07-15-2002, 06:29 AM

Rob Sherman is trying to change the national motto

<a href="http://robsherman.com/information/liberalnews/2001/1029.htm" target="_blank">robsherman.com</a>

And the Ohio motto you mentioned was challenged. As in the pledge case, a 3 member court found it illegal. But the whole district court overturned the ruling because of "ceremonilal deism".

The funny thing is, by ruling thusly, the court found that it has no religious meaning even though it comes from the Bible.

And they ruled that Ohio could not reference the verse from which it came. Does this mean the court found the Bible unworthy of public reading?

Alonzo Fyfe · 07-15-2002, 06:40 AM

There is a significant (and, constitutionally relevant) difference between the national motto and the three distinct state mottos listed.

This difference is the word 'we'.

By including the word 'we', the national motto states that 'we' (the included group, the allies, those who belong) trust in God -- while, by implication, 'they', them, the excluded group, the enemy, do not.

Indeed, 'In God We Trust' was adopted as the national motto in order to distinguish America from (godless) communism. So, indeed, it was a part of the very intention of the law, as stated by its originators, to identify atheism as an excluded group, to label atheism (godlessness) as unAmerican.

None of the three distinct state mottos do that.

And, so, even though I do not think that the statements made in the three distinct state mottos are true, I do not resent them nearly as much as a motto that casts me and those who think like me as 'the excluded group, the anti-Americans'.

And I would not be as opposed to placing any of those mottos on a plaque to be hung at a public school, as I am opposed to hanging a plaque that says nothing less than that 'Include all who trust in God, exclude all who do not.'

oriecat · 07-15-2002, 06:52 AM

The answer is very clear if you look to the US Code.

<a href="http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/302.html" target="_blank">http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/302.html</a>

Hopefully we'll work on that one soon.

GaryP · 07-15-2002, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alonzo Fyfe:


By including the word 'we', the national motto states that 'we' (the included group, the allies, those who belong) trust in God -- while, by implication, 'they', them, the excluded group, the enemy, do not.

Indeed, 'In God We Trust' was adopted as the national motto in order to distinguish America from (godless) communism. So, indeed, it was a part of the very intention of the law, as stated by its originators, to identify atheism as an excluded group, to label atheism (godlessness) as unAmerican.

None of the three distinct state mottos do that.

The Ohio motto was adopted in 1957 or so, the same era of UG & IGWT. So it more than likely was an attempt to make a distinction between Atheists and believers.

The main issue of the court case was that it came directly from the Christian Bible.

If there were an Atheist "Bible" do you think a court would have upheld a quote from it?

IMO, your distinctions are not enough to make me feel that the states' mottos are neutral toward religion.

Alonzo Fyfe · 07-15-2002, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GaryP:
IMO, your distinctions are not enough to make me feel that the states' mottos are neutral toward religion.

IMO, my distinctions are not enough to make me feel that the states' mottos are neutral toward religion either.

My point was that they do not carry the message "Atheists are the enemy" as blatantly as the national motto does.

GaryP · 07-15-2002, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alonzo Fyfe:

My point was that they do not carry the message "Atheists are the enemy" as blatantly as the national motto does.[/QB]

I agree.

Buffman · 07-15-2002, 05:18 PM

Take a $1.00 bill and look on the reverse at the ribbon on the Great Seal of the U.S. I wonder how long it will be before it says "One Nation---Under God?"

[Added]

<a href="http://www.greatseal.com/committees/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.greatseal.com/committees/index.html</a>

Why is it that those who work so hard to claim the Founding Fathers as "their" own are so quick to change what those FF's determined was best representative of the America that they helped to create? Why do certain of today's religious groups work so hard to destroy these wise visions?
The FF's sought "Unity" and "Liberty." Unfortunately, some of today's theists appear to seek "Divisiveness" and "Religious Slavery." IMHO, that is pure hypocrisy.

[ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]

07-15-2002, 05:18 PM	#8
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Take a $1.00 bill and look on the reverse at the ribbon on the Great Seal of the U.S. I wonder how long it will be before it says "One Nation---Under God?" [Added] <a href="http://www.greatseal.com/committees/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.greatseal.com/committees/index.html</a> Why is it that those who work so hard to claim the Founding Fathers as "their" own are so quick to change what those FF's determined was best representative of the America that they helped to create? Why do certain of today's religious groups work so hard to destroy these wise visions? The FF's sought "Unity" and "Liberty." Unfortunately, some of today's theists appear to seek "Divisiveness" and "Religious Slavery." IMHO, that is pure hypocrisy. [ July 15, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]</p>

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07-15-2002, 06:29 AM	#2
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	Rob Sherman is trying to change the national motto <a href="http://robsherman.com/information/liberalnews/2001/1029.htm" target="_blank">robsherman.com</a> And the Ohio motto you mentioned was challenged. As in the pledge case, a 3 member court found it illegal. But the whole district court overturned the ruling because of "ceremonilal deism". The funny thing is, by ruling thusly, the court found that it has no religious meaning even though it comes from the Bible. And they ruled that Ohio could not reference the verse from which it came. Does this mean the court found the Bible unworthy of public reading?

07-15-2002, 06:40 AM	#3
Alonzo Fyfe Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: 920B Milo Circle Lafayette, CO Posts: 3,515	There is a significant (and, constitutionally relevant) difference between the national motto and the three distinct state mottos listed. This difference is the word 'we'. By including the word 'we', the national motto states that 'we' (the included group, the allies, those who belong) trust in God -- while, by implication, 'they', them, the excluded group, the enemy, do not. Indeed, 'In God We Trust' was adopted as the national motto in order to distinguish America from (godless) communism. So, indeed, it was a part of the very intention of the law, as stated by its originators, to identify atheism as an excluded group, to label atheism (godlessness) as unAmerican. None of the three distinct state mottos do that. And, so, even though I do not think that the statements made in the three distinct state mottos are true, I do not resent them nearly as much as a motto that casts me and those who think like me as 'the excluded group, the anti-Americans'. And I would not be as opposed to placing any of those mottos on a plaque to be hung at a public school, as I am opposed to hanging a plaque that says nothing less than that 'Include all who trust in God, exclude all who do not.'

07-15-2002, 06:52 AM	#4
oriecat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland OR USA Posts: 1,098	The answer is very clear if you look to the US Code. <a href="http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/302.html" target="_blank">http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/302.html</a> Hopefully we'll work on that one soon.

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