Magus55

How many times does it need to be said before you understand this concept? God did not build Hell for humans. Humans made their way into Hell on their own by disobeying God. You go to Hell because of your sin. Sin is an infinite crime. If you don't get pardoned for it, you have to be punished. Alot of atheists on this board would prefer Hell. You want nothing to do with God, so you made the choice - not him. Take responsibility and stop whining that God is a big meany and unfair. Until you become the sovereign ruler of the entire universe, your opinion on the matter is meaningless, and you can't change it. You are playing by God's rules, not yours. You don't like them, tough.

Gemma Therese

Amen.

Gemma Therese

Starboy

What? Sin, hell, god .... concepts? Take responsibility? Responsibility for what? Sovereign ruler of the entire universe? Been reading too many comic books have we? What universe do you come from?

Starboy

Abel Stable

Wow, how did I know you were going to say that? I'm still so surprised you find love anywhere in this equation.

"I just held the knife there, I didn't realize you were going to walk into it! I just wanted a hug!"

Isn't unconditional love mentioned along with christianity? I fail to see the "unconditional" part. Just a lot of "God loves you so much He..." ...creates you with an eternal crime? Better love Him, or you'll end up in that torture chamber (that He actually built for some other guys, but it just so happens to be perfect for you too!)

God seems to love curses a whole lot more than people.

Bree

If hell was not built for humans, then who were the original, intended unhabitants?

KnightWhoSaysNi

Abel wrote:
So would you honestly love your father if he built a torture chamber in his basement, just in case you didn't love him enough?
Ahh, pure unconditional love.

To paraphrase a bit ---

"How many times does it need to be said before you understand this concept? My father did not build the torture chamber in the basement for the family. Family members made their way into the torture chamber on their own by disobeying dad. You go to the torture chamber because of your defiance of dad. Defiance of dad is an infinite household crime. If you don't get pardoned for it, you have to be punished. Alot of disobedient family members in the household would prefer the torture chamber. You want nothing to do with dad, so you made the choice - not him. Take responsibility and stop whining that dad is a big meany and unfair. Until you become the head of the household, your opinion on the matter is meaningless, and you can't change it. You are playing by dad's rules, not yours. You don't like them, tough."

(I might add that 'dad' has an annoying tendency to play hide and seek, and is only represented by family members who can't even prove the existence of the torture chamber in the basement, not to mention 'dad.' Those who follow 'dad' also have trouble agreeing what his rules are too).

See Kissing Hank's Ass for another interesting analogy.

Korihor (formerly, 'Nightshade')

orac

You don't get it, do you?

Last time I asked you to prove this, you came up with histories of christianity.

The existance of Muslims does not prove the existance of Allah.

The existance of christmas stockings does not prove the existance of Santa.

The existance of Christians does not prove the existance of Jesus.

Got it now?

So, references please. And remember, you're trying to prove Jesus is real. If the existance of christians is the best you can do, I'll have to assume you also believe in Santa and Allah as well.

You know, I have to say I never picked you for a scientologist. A christian, maybe, but that one completely missed me.

L. Ron Hubbard was a real person, he lived and breathed. In fact, there are still many people alive now who have personally talked to him. He wrote lots of things, including letters about real people and real places. Independant sources verifying stories of his life and death dwarf those available for Jesus.

So, given that we've proven scientology to be true, I assume you converted.

Er, you couldn't possibly say that I haven't proven scientology to be true, could you?

What really disturbs me more, though, is that you believe Stephen King writes non fiction about ghosts, demons and other assorted monsters. After all, if they're set in real places they must be true, right? I'm not entirely sure how I missed the end of civilisation, but if you say he writes non-fiction, I guess I should just have faith.

Or will you admit that setting a story in a real place doesn't mean that it truely happened? Please?

I'm also looking forward to your explanation of the conflicting biblical accounts of the ressurection. You say there's no contradictions in the bible, and that it's historically accurate, so your explanation for that little detail should be amazing.

Of course I don't expect that you're capable of doing that. You never seem to like answering the difficult questions. Why is that?

Celsus

Greetings all,

While I know that debating religious topics is one way to clear doubt, it would be better if we start new threads to deal with the tangents. Let's try to get back on topic.

Joel aka Celsus
GRD Moderator

KnightWhoSaysNi

One thing more I might add. You seem to be assuming that we're walking up to the Almighty to challenge him, saying "my morality is better than yours!"

Keep in mind that we are simply challenging what other ordinary human beings are claiming about the morality and justice of their particular deity.

For example, you might challenge an Aztec sun god worshipper and claim that his deity is rather nasty if it requires constant bloodletting from human sacrifice rituals to appease it. How seriously would you take him if he replied, "Take responsibility and stop whining that the sun god is a big meany and unfair! Until you become sovereign ruler of the entire universe, your opinion on the matter is meaningless!"

If being "sovereign ruler of the universe" means 'might makes right' then saying "god is love" is like saying "god is what he fancies he ought to be."

Korihor (formerly, 'Nightshade')

Godot

ahhh, gotta love seeing that 'love thy neighbour' bit coming out. Fer chrissake magus, maybe you should petition admin to change your handle to Janus. :banghead: