05-26-2003, 09:08 AM
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Veteran Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 2,767
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My email to 'ex-atheist'
The following is a copy of an email I sent to A.S.A. Jones, the owner of ex-atheist website found here.
He wrote back and asked that I take the discussion over to TheologyWeb which you can find here..
Should be an interesting discussion. 
Here's what I wrote to him:
Quote:
Hello,
I was just browsing through your website and looked through some of your articles. I just had some questions and comments. :-)
First, to let you know about myself, I am an atheist or agnostic and would consider myself a humanist as well. Right now I'm a 31 year old student who hopes to become a high school math teacher some day. I was raised in the Anglican church, and was not really commited that religiously overall. It was during my university years where I discarded my faith. I don't take on the stereotype of the 'Madalyn Murray O'Hair' religion bashing heathen who seeks to demean or attack Christians or whoever else might have a different worldview. I used to have some good Mormon friends, and a current friend of mine is an evangelical Christian. When I converse with Christians, it's not my desire to sway them or whatever. I don't care if someone else is a theist or not -- only if they're a good person. I just find exchanging or debating metaphysical views in a calm and rational matter interesting. I might add that the 'Madalyn Murray O'Hairs", or worse, can be found from the Christian side too.
As for my questions, I was just curious about how you viewed evolution. From the gist of what I've read so far, I would guess that you're either a YEC or OEC (forgive me if I'm making unwarranted assumptions). What particular view do you take? What's your view on evangelical Christians that accept evolution? (e.g. like Denis Lamoureux, Glenn Morton, and Keith Miller).
I was also curious about how you viewed people that have gone in the absolute opposite direction that you have taken. A good example would be Robert Price, who was a former evangelical apologist:
http://www.infidels.org/library/mode.../humanist.html
I'm not sure if you've heard of it, but there's also a good book called "Leaving the Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundamentalists" by Ed Babinski. I've read other 'deconversion' testimonies and they usually seem pretty sincere. They, along with Price, were good, honest people who were determined seekers of the truth and they just changed their minds about evangelical Christianity.
I noticed one thing in your testimony that touches on what I feel are one of the strongest objections that would prevent me from accepting evangelical Christianity. You stated the following:
"Every time I found fault with its god, I ended up finding a fault of my own. What was I doing when I condemned this god for commanding Moses to kill? Was I arrogantly making my morality superior to that of the being who allegedly authored all of morality?"
The problem I have with this view is that it confers a "might makes right" moral attribute to God. It's like that old dilemna -- does God command actions because they are right, or are actions right because God commands them? If we cannot condemn any atrocious behaviour by God, then what does "good" mean? Is goodness defined by who has the biggest stick? In effect, if God commanded that torturing and molesting toddlers was "good" then that would make the action "good." If you were to say that God would never command that because it's against his nature, then you would be implying a level of morality that's independent of God.
Here's another thing that I find perplexing. Let's take Deut. 25:11-12.
"If men get into a fight with one another, and the wife of one intervenes to rescue her husband from the grip of his opponent by reaching out and seizing his genitals, you shall cut off her hand; show no pity."
You're probably aware of C.S. Lewis's argument that each human being has a sense of right and wrong, and thus a conscience. Why is that this very essence that you think God made in each of us is telling me... (no, screaming at me!)... that actions prescribed in this verse are utterly cruel and monstrous? As a Christian, you are required to accept a rule like that as a form of divine justice, regardless if you think Jesus 'fulfilled the Law' and is no longer binding. Why is that my conscience, that is supposedly derived from God, will prevent me from ever accepting Deut. 25:11-12 as a 'righteous' thing to do? Also, forgive me if it sounds like I'm asking a rhetorical question, but if you were put in back in time as an Israelite, would you really amputate the poor woman's hand and "show no pity"?
There are plenty of other passages like that in the OT that give me the same revulsion. When I look at the big picture, it just makes far, far more sense to me that the OT laws were simply a product of an ancient barbaric superstitious culture rather than the wisdom of a universe spanding omnibenevolent deity that sought to micromanage a tribe of desert nomads' social affairs. God becomes a petty vindictive deity like the role one would take in the PC game "Black and White."
Anyways, these are just some of my thoughts and I imagine you had similar views when you thought these issues through too. When I get some time, I might look at some of your reading suggestions (even Tektonic's J.P. "no link" Holding ;-). I'm no Bertrand Russell or William Craig intellectually, but I would like to think I'm an honest seeker of the truth and am willing to change my beliefs even if I won't like the truth.
Take care,
Jason
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