Amie

marduck,
you are a darling thanks for letting me skip the bugs. I am inclined to think you like bugs as much as I like volcanoes
Amie~

Kosh

So, if as you just admitted, you have no evidence to support the Flood story, what was it you wanted to debate about the Flood?

"The Bible Says So" doesn't play so well around here, in case you hadn't noticed.

Amie

Kosh I need to try to be patient with you because you are growing on me

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: Amie ]</p>

Kosh

Why? I asked a couple simple questions. You're the one who wanted to debate Noah's Ark.

You know me Amie. I'm the student who sits in your classroom bored because you're going too slow for me. So I daydream, alot. Your challege is to keep me interested while not going too fast for the other students.

Let it rip. Give it all to me! Extra reading assignment. Just point me to your library, I'll show you what an overachiever I am (graduated at the top of my class, ya know). And I never even studied!

Don't fail me teacher!

Radorth

Supply a link to a site written by and engineer which proves your theory and says "even in the calmest seas" Michael. You don't know what you are talking about. And changing it to "the slighest wave action" means nothing. Ship structural engineering is an exact science.

Radorth

Amie

Oh thats right! you're the little bugger who sits in the back staring out the window! I really liked your "I love Culture Club" t-shirt you were wearing today...almost as much as I liked that "Air Supply Rocks!" one you were wearing on Friday, I thought they were a great addition to your wrangler jeans and checkered Vans. Will you please remember to bring the CD you promised me tomorrow and yes sweetheart, I'll be sure to give you PLENTY of extra reading assignments. Speaking of science one of my favorites is the Genome project. There is also a good book out called the genesis flood, although it is not science per se, I am rather fond of it...Now hurry along and read it and make me as proud as punch
Have a good one Kosh
Amie~

The Lone Ranger

I don't see that I ever posted anything insulting to you, but I apologize if I did.

For what it's worth, I'm not a naval engineer, but I'm by no means completely ignorant of the subject.

I'm not inclined to do your research for you at the moment, since I'm on my way out, but I'll give you some suggested research topics, if you like.

The largest wooden vessels that are even rumoured to have existed are Ming-dynasty vessels which some authors have claimed were approximately 400 feet long and 150 feet wide. Archaeologists are almost universal in believing that stories of vessels this size are gross exaggerations, however, since no direct evidence has been found for their existence, and such vessels would be far larger than any wooden vessels that have ever been known to exist.

These vessels were built during the reign of the first Ming emperor, Zhu Di (1402-1424). There is considerable debate over whether the measurement units cited in the original Chinese texts were properly translated, which could well account for the seemingly fantastic claims of the vessels' sizes.


As to wooden vessels whose dimensions are known, among the very largest that were at all seaworthy were the 5,000 - 6,000 ton wooden warships of the mid- to late 19th century, including the Mersey-class frigates and the Victoria-class battleships. These vessels did not exceed 340 feet in length or 60 feet in width.

These vessels were notoriously unseaworthy, and the Mersey class vessels (somewhat longer than the Victorias) were considered failures, and so soon scrapped.

These vessels held together at all only because they were extensively reinforced with internal iron strapping. Naval engineers of the time concluded that these vessels were at or in excess of the practical size limits of wooden vessels. Nonetheless, a few attempts were made to build even larger wooden vessels. All failed.

You are, of course, free to look it up for yourself

'Night,

Michael

Lone Wolf

Michael is correct. On the ancient ships:

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sultan/archeology2.html" target="_blank">PBS Nova "Sultans Lost Treasure"</a>

In modern times, the largest wooden ships were six-masters launched from 1900 - 1909. The largest was the U.S.S. Wyoming at 329'. They were all failures, even with iron reinforcement. The ark was allegedly 121' longer than the Wyoming.

The problems with large wooden ships are 'snaking' and 'hogging'. Snaking is an undulating motion and hogging is well described here:

<a href="http://www.tricoastal.com/woodship.html" target="_blank">Tri-Coastal Marine on Wooden Ships</a>

(scroll down to the section on hogging)

edited to add quote:

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: Lone Wolf ]</p>

Buffman

Perhaps you better read what I wrote again. Did I accuse you of doing that which saddens me? Why so sensitive to my remark? Perhaps you are not aware of the following. Does this sadden you? It saddens me. Based on those statistics and your initial resort to biblical passages as evidence of fact, it is rather difficult for me not to wonder exactly what does go on in your classroom or in private biology discussions with your students. Please note that these were science teachers in the studies.

<a href="http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/695_problem_concepts_in_evolution_10_1_1999.asp" target="_blank">http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/695_problem_concepts_in_evolution_10_1_1999.asp</a>


(Extract)
A number of state surveys of teachers have been conducted over the years, and although the questions, samples, dates of distribution and many other factors are not comparable, the data all seem to point in the same direction: a surprising number of practicing teachers do not accept evolution, and do not understand key concepts. In Table 4, I present data culled from a number of studies (states and dates indicated) in which teachers were asked about giving "equal time" to creationism in their science classes. Roughly one third look favored this possibility. I think such results reflect teachers’ profound misunderstanding of the nature of science. More attention needs to be spent (especially in the introductory courses, where future teachers receive their understanding of science) on both evolution and as science as a way of knowing.


Percentage of Teachers Advocating Equal Time for Creationism

Illinois (Nickels/Drummond, 1983) 35%
Ohio (Zimmerman, 1987) 39%
South Dakota (Tatina, 1989) 39%
Louisiana (Aguillard, 1999) 29%
Georgia (Elgin, 1983) 30%
Pennsylvania (Osif, 1997) 39%
National (Eve and Dunn, 1989) 30%
(End Extract)

(Sorry about the Chart. I'll attempt to fix it.)
Care to make an attitude adjustment about my remarks? If not, I will understand.

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: Buffman ]</p>

Infinity Lover

Call me naive; but wouldn't a global flood of such magnitude have completely destroyed the racial diversity of mankind?

Couldn't help but wonder.

Marcel.