Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 03-27-2003, 05:52 PM

The Elizabeth Smart Case: Why We Need Specific Laws Against Brainwashing

Marci Hamilton, a very articulate Findlaw commentator on church state separation, endorses the French law that makes "mental manipulation" (a/k/a brainwashing) a crime. The United States has opposed this law as a violation of religious freedom.

Most Americans assume that any attempt to define and outlaw "mental manipulation" would violate the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment. Civil Libertarians assume that this is part of the price that we pay for full religious freedom. But this has allowed commercial cults such as $cientology to florish in this country (and perhaps also to influence the American opposition to the French law.)

fando · 03-28-2003, 02:52 AM

Interesting... that the U.S. opposes criminalizing "mental manipulation" in the name of religious freedom. On the surface, it sounds like an official admission that religion is brainwashing. There must be a deeper reason for the position...

edit -- maybe not... I'm giving the lawmakesrs too much credit.

dangin · 03-28-2003, 06:04 AM

Could arguing with logic against religion be considered "brainwashing". If the situation is being judged by a christian I think it could be.

What if you are brainwashing a person back to normal after they have been brainwashed into a cult.

I brainwash and brainwash and I can't get the stains out.

King Rat · 03-28-2003, 07:39 AM

The sad thing is, Elizabeth will be going from one brainwashed state to another. I'm sure her LDS family will inundate her with love and good intentions, but she will just be going from one delusion to another. At least in her new delusion she won't get raped in the name of god.

The Naked Mage · 03-28-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

At least in her new delusion she won't get raped in the name of god.

Not physically, anyway. We think.

Harumi · 04-01-2003, 05:25 PM

What are the specifics of the anti-brainwashing law?

It would seem like it would be very difficult to check, especially since it could be taken either way.

Christians could say atheists brainwash their kids into not believing in God while atheists say the opposite.

I'm curious as to how France managed it.

03-27-2003, 05:52 PM	#1
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Elizabeth Smart and "mental manipulation" The Elizabeth Smart Case: Why We Need Specific Laws Against Brainwashing Marci Hamilton, a very articulate Findlaw commentator on church state separation, endorses the French law that makes "mental manipulation" (a/k/a brainwashing) a crime. The United States has opposed this law as a violation of religious freedom. Most Americans assume that any attempt to define and outlaw "mental manipulation" would violate the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment. Civil Libertarians assume that this is part of the price that we pay for full religious freedom. But this has allowed commercial cults such as $cientology to florish in this country (and perhaps also to influence the American opposition to the French law.)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

03-28-2003, 02:52 AM	#2
fando Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 1,372	Interesting... that the U.S. opposes criminalizing "mental manipulation" in the name of religious freedom. On the surface, it sounds like an official admission that religion is brainwashing. There must be a deeper reason for the position... edit -- maybe not... I'm giving the lawmakesrs too much credit.

03-28-2003, 06:04 AM	#3
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Could arguing with logic against religion be considered "brainwashing". If the situation is being judged by a christian I think it could be. What if you are brainwashing a person back to normal after they have been brainwashed into a cult. I brainwash and brainwash and I can't get the stains out.

03-28-2003, 07:39 AM	#4
King Rat Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 6,855	The sad thing is, Elizabeth will be going from one brainwashed state to another. I'm sure her LDS family will inundate her with love and good intentions, but she will just be going from one delusion to another. At least in her new delusion she won't get raped in the name of god.

04-01-2003, 05:25 PM	#6
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	What are the specifics of the anti-brainwashing law? It would seem like it would be very difficult to check, especially since it could be taken either way. Christians could say atheists brainwash their kids into not believing in God while atheists say the opposite. I'm curious as to how France managed it.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.