Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Primal · 09-20-2002, 01:47 PM

So by that token, even if the word "demon" was traditionally used to indicate some malicious spirit, it would still make sense tosay diseases are caused by demons, because one has experienced disease being caused by demons. In which case a more scientific person will say "nope, germs are the cause" in which case, using your sort of reasoning "well demons are germs". Sorry but I'm not buying such evasion. Given your definition of free will, what's to destinguish a "free will or choice" from a "determined one"? Nothing really, meaning you concede that the determinist argument is stronger but are desperately trying to define yourself to victory. On the basis of a few fringe philosophers/compatabalists supporting your position.

Kind of like if some creationists wereto say "well creation means gradual evolution through natural selection; so creationism is true". Of course it is.

Infinity Lover · 09-20-2002, 02:30 PM

What the hell happened to this thread??

(edited to restore boldface; it was important to me.

[ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]</p>

Kent Stevens · 09-20-2002, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Kent:
God *is* the experience of having God in the same way the taste of an apple *is* the experience of having some certain experience centered in the mouth.

Quote:

Keith:
Nope. The experience of eating an apple can be shown to be caused by eating the apple. The experience of 'God', however, cannot be shown to be caused by 'God'.

I have never denied that those who claim to have experienced 'God' might actually have experienced 'something'. I just don't think they've experienced 'God'.

Yes, the experience of 'God' may be real.

But so what? That in no way proves that 'God' is real.

I was only being sarcastic when I said that God (or Santa Clause) could be said to exist, if he is experienced. I do not believe that God exists. I was being sarcastic about what someone else was saying that free will exists because it is experienced. I suppose I was not clear enough.

All our imaginings and ideas as a small part of our minds, make up part of the Universe. But these imaginings such as Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, are usually said not to exist. Here exist in the normal sense refers to things existing outside of our own minds.

Steven1987 · 09-26-2002, 09:45 AM

For the people who responded with the meanings are different for everyone, I'd like to hear some of their personal meanings, just out of interest.

Steven

Steven1987 · 09-26-2002, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Page:
<strong>

I saw a pretty butterfly
a seeking food and mates
but then it coughed
its leg fell off
and floated down the river.

</strong>

I like that poem
It's kind of funny too. But if your reasoning is true, that's not funny. But i guess it's not bad either. I don't know

Keith Russell · 09-26-2002, 10:55 AM

Kent:

I've said this before; our thoughts, ideas, and concepts exist, and they exists as concepts.

Having an idea of God does not mean that 'God' exists, only that I have a concept of God, and the concept exists.

(You probably agree with the above; I just thought it needed to be stated explicitly.)

The fact that a concept of God exists is as meaningful qua 'God', as the fact that a concept that sea monsters exists, means that sea monsters are also real.

Keith.

cartman · 09-26-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimistic:
...that you are free to love who you want, without warning....

That might be true, but if you put it into practice expect to be on the receiving end of some vicious kicks! And possibly a trip downtown to chat with the boys in blue!

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09-20-2002, 01:47 PM	#91
Primal Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Marcos Posts: 551	So by that token, even if the word "demon" was traditionally used to indicate some malicious spirit, it would still make sense tosay diseases are caused by demons, because one has experienced disease being caused by demons. In which case a more scientific person will say "nope, germs are the cause" in which case, using your sort of reasoning "well demons are germs". Sorry but I'm not buying such evasion. Given your definition of free will, what's to destinguish a "free will or choice" from a "determined one"? Nothing really, meaning you concede that the determinist argument is stronger but are desperately trying to define yourself to victory. On the basis of a few fringe philosophers/compatabalists supporting your position. Kind of like if some creationists wereto say "well creation means gradual evolution through natural selection; so creationism is true". Of course it is.

09-20-2002, 02:30 PM	#92
Infinity Lover Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,047	What the hell happened to this thread?? (edited to restore boldface; it was important to me. [ September 20, 2002: Message edited by: Infinity Lover ]</p>

09-26-2002, 09:45 AM	#94
Steven1987 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: rva Posts: 7	For the people who responded with the meanings are different for everyone, I'd like to hear some of their personal meanings, just out of interest. Steven

09-26-2002, 10:55 AM	#96
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Kent: I've said this before; our thoughts, ideas, and concepts exist, and they exists as concepts. Having an idea of God does not mean that 'God' exists, only that I have a concept of God, and the concept exists. (You probably agree with the above; I just thought it needed to be stated explicitly.) The fact that a concept of God exists is as meaningful qua 'God', as the fact that a concept that sea monsters exists, means that sea monsters are also real. Keith.

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