Freethought & Rationalism Archive

daemon · 07-16-2002, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordMoneyG:
Well, for a well-known example, do a simple "Scientology" search on Google, and look at the far-right portion of your screen.

Scientology apparently donates a large amount of funds to this, the largest search engine, and hence probably has significant say as to the sites that Google searches can report.

In fact, if you search for some of the more controversial scientology topics, you'll find that Google has been prevented from returning many sites by the church itself.

Interesting, and disturbing, stuff.

And because of the autopsy photos, my conscious has prevented me from posting a tasteless "Grease" joke.

The CoS has no more right than any other organization out there to define what Google or anyone else links or caches. They do have some legally legitimate complaints about some of the sites that have been delisted, though whether they should be legally legitimate seems unclear to me.

However, the CoS has managed to turn this into yet another "Operation Footbullet" in their own special way. In response to CoS's requests to remove materials related to Scientology, the <a href="http://www.chillingeffect.org" target="_blank">Chilling Effects Clearinghouse</a> was formed to keep detailed information about various attempts to stifle free speech, and Google links to it instead of the sites CoS complains about. Instead of getting one site they didn't want you to see, Google provides you with a link to all the sites they don't want you to see!

mibby529 · 07-17-2002, 06:27 PM

Well, Scientology...

::bell rings, answers door::

Um, due to the very large man outside my door, I cannot discuss Scientology.

LOL I know, jokes about Scientology's fascist tactics are stale, but I couldn't help myself.

excreationist · 07-17-2002, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordMoneyG:
...In fact, if you search for some of the more controversial scientology topics, you'll find that Google has been prevented from returning many sites by the church itself....

Well now xenu.net is at the top of <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Scientology&btnG=Google+Search" target="_blank">Google's results</a>.
And <a href="http://www.xenu.net/" target="_blank">xenu.net</a> has the following picture

which links to this <a href="http://www.infoanarchy.org/story/2002/4/13/1258/31858" target="_blank">article</a>.

[ July 17, 2002: Message edited by: excreationist ]

LordMoneyG · 07-18-2002, 05:18 AM

Thanks for the info, Ex. Oddly reassuring.

And on a completely serious note, does anyone have any information on the rumored scientology-related "subliminal messages" in "Battlefield Earth"? Now, I know that subliminal messages have been shown, for the most part (if not totally) not to work, but I wouldn't put anything past the church's realm of attempt.

I mean, it's not like anyone watched that complete wombat-turd of a movie anyway. But it has been on the Max channels a lot recently, and it just got me a'thinkin'.

Hmph...Not too many religions can claim to have both freethinkers AND Christians as enemies...Congrats, Ronnie!

fando · 07-18-2002, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordMoneyG:
And on a completely serious note, does anyone have any information on the rumored scientology-related "subliminal messages" in "Battlefield Earth"?

As evidenced by its poor performance at the box office, it should suffice to say that the experiment was a failure.

LordMoneyG · 07-18-2002, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fando:
As evidenced by its poor performance at the box office, it should suffice to say that the experiment was a failure.

Touche'.

Radcliffe Emerson · 07-18-2002, 12:40 PM

It's hilarious because Hubbard himself admitted he was starting a religion to earn tax-free income. He stated "How do you make money without being taxed? Start your own religion."
Then he did, and people follow it now just like the other religions around the world, some of which I think started for the same reasons, to make easy money.

excreationist · 07-18-2002, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hal9000:
...I am now repulsed by the celebrities that push this cult like Cruse and Revolta. What stupid sick people they are!

e.g. <a href="http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/tsos/sos-02.html" target="_blank">Auditing and confessionals</a>

Quote:

...The preclear believes that the E-meter works somewhat like a lie detector. He is told that it is a "truth detector," however, and he therefore reveals increasingly intimate details of his life to his auditor while holding on to the meter...

...before they will audit him, the Scientologists make the confessor sign a release form swearing he will never sue them.

...the person has very little choice about what he "confesses" because he is asked certain questions repeatedly, such as "Have you done anything your mother would be ashamed to find out?" He must not only answer these questions but he must answer them fully and truthfully or else the "lie detector" will give him away.

...the intimate information he reveals to his auditor is not kept completely confidential. As many as ten people may examine these files, since a preclear's records are available to all of his auditors (who often number five or six), plus the Director of Processing and occasionally the Ethics Officer, a type of internal police officer in the Scientology organization.

...In addition, Hubbard has [had] access to these records. Portions of a preclear's files may be sent to the main Scientology headquarters at Saint Hill so that Hubbard can review them for research.

Besides blackmail, Scientology's <a href="http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TR/index.html" target="_blank">Training Routines</a> would highly incluence those people's thoughts...

from <a href="http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/TR/critique.html" target="_blank">A Critical Review of Scientology Training Routines</a>:

Quote:

...
TR 0: Confronting
[ Sit with eyes open for hours, not moving or twitching, "confronting" coach.
For the two TR 0 drills, some hours without any reaction is a pass, 2 hrs recommended. ]

FLUNK! Body Movement. Start.

FLUNK! Talking. Start.

FLUNK! Eye movement. Start.

FLUNK! Non-confront. Start.

FLUNK! Not in Present Time. Start.

These were the words of my staff coach as I began this strange exercise of "confronting" a person. FLUNK! is given at Tone 40 and causes shock and confusion. The robotic "Start" command is given to begin the exercise. The last command for each of these drills is "That's it!", words which grew sweeter as training progressed. The student is not really told the rules for this game, but rather simply gets shouted at whenever a mistake is made. This sort of stimulus-response, I learned, is the hallmark of Hubbard's view of human beings (or "raw meat", as new recruits are called) - mere machines with "Start" and "Stop" buttons.
...

TR 0: Bullbait
[ Sit with eyes open for hours, not moving laughing or twitching, "confronting" coach while s/he tries in every way to make you react. ]
...
The job of the "coach" is to find your "buttons" - those phrases and movements which will cause you to react. The pattern suggested by the Staff coach centered on sexual perversion for the men and body part criticism for the women. Some of the gender-neutral abuse centered on Suppressive Person mockups, attempting to dredge up memories of past wrongs to gain a reaction. In fairness, it was not all abusive - sometimes a good joke ("mental pictures") could produce a FLUNK!.
...

TR 1: Dear Alice
...In this routine, context-free snippets from Alice [in Wonderland], printed on a sheet of paper, are read by the student to the coach...Here, canned script from a master storyteller conjurs up some fantastic and nonsensical images, which the student must refuse to process [smirk at] or fail the exercise. The result is robotic repetition of nonsense phrases, which some have come to recognize as a hallmark of what passes for conversation in Scientology....Rather than conditioning you for the real world where nonsense is met with questions for clarification, Ron is conditioning the mark to confront "Scieno-speak." Ron's writing style and propensity to make up words because he couldn't think of the real ones could give a newcomer the giggles if it were not for this exercise....

TR 6: 8-C (Body Control)
Part One:
[ Student walks coach around like a robot, in constant physical contact. The student physically makes the coach's body start, change direction and stop with the student forcibly controlling the coach's body into doing those things. ]....

Part Two:
[ Student controls coach by and while giving the commands:
"LOOK AT THAT WALL!" "THANK YOU!"
"WALK OVER TO THAT WALL!" "THANK YOU!"
"TOUCH THAT WALL" "THANK YOU!"
"TURN AROUND!" "THANK YOU!"

No physical contact. ] ...

...Here, Hubbard's message is clear: non-compliance with Scientology's commands, especially during auditing, will be met with escalating levels of force - non-verbal, verbal, shouting, and physical. When you sign up for services, you give away your right to resist, since it's just your "case" talking. Your case is something to be "handled", and it can be handled up to the point of physical intervention.

TR 8: Tone 40 On Objects
[ Trying to make the ashtray STAND UP. Student gives Tone 40 command "STAND UP!"....

By this point, I was so deluded by the concept of Tone 40 that the fact that I was LIFTING IT WITH MY HANDS was irrelevant. I gave the command, the ashtray stood up. After doing this for half an hour, I felt like God, lifting the ashtray by sheer intention. My Thetan's (Scieno-babble for "spirit") Intention was using my arms and hands, though that was only for convenience, since with sufficient intent they were not necessary. I was allowed to stop when I cog'ed (Scieno-babble for "cognition") on this. TR8 is heavy-duty Scientology processing, or thought conditioning.

In retrospect, TR0-bullbait is a mandatory prerequisite for TR8. Without it, uncontrolled Tone-40 laughter would be the result. Having experienced the delusion makes it easier to understand what happens at the higher levels. Repetitive exercise numbs the mind to the point that even simple actions become nearly supernatural....

BTW, <a href="http://www.b-org.demon.nl/scn/upper-levels/00-upper-levels-index.html" target="_blank">here</a> you can get access to upper-level stuff that you'd normally have to pay about US$365,000 to see...

[ July 18, 2002: Message edited by: excreationist ]

David M. Payne · 07-20-2002, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daemon:
The CoS has no more right than any other organization out there to define what Google or anyone else links or caches. They do have some legally legitimate complaints about some of the sites that have been delisted, though whether they should be legally legitimate seems unclear to me.

However, the CoS has managed to turn this into yet another "Operation Footbullet" in their own special way. In response to CoS's requests to remove materials related to Scientology, the <a href="http://www.chillingeffect.org" target="_blank">Chilling Effects Clearinghouse</a> was formed to keep detailed information about various attempts to stifle free speech, and Google links to it instead of the sites CoS complains about. Instead of getting one site they didn't want you to see, Google provides you with a link to all the sites they don't want you to see!

I love it when a CoS plan backfires, don't you?

David

hal9000 · 07-25-2002, 06:49 PM

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07-17-2002, 06:27 PM	#32
mibby529 Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Cali Posts: 170	Well, Scientology... ::bell rings, answers door:: Um, due to the very large man outside my door, I cannot discuss Scientology. LOL I know, jokes about Scientology's fascist tactics are stale, but I couldn't help myself.

07-18-2002, 05:18 AM	#34
LordMoneyG Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 125	Thanks for the info, Ex. Oddly reassuring. And on a completely serious note, does anyone have any information on the rumored scientology-related "subliminal messages" in "Battlefield Earth"? Now, I know that subliminal messages have been shown, for the most part (if not totally) not to work, but I wouldn't put anything past the church's realm of attempt. I mean, it's not like anyone watched that complete wombat-turd of a movie anyway. But it has been on the Max channels a lot recently, and it just got me a'thinkin'. Hmph...Not too many religions can claim to have both freethinkers AND Christians as enemies...Congrats, Ronnie!

07-18-2002, 12:40 PM	#37
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	It's hilarious because Hubbard himself admitted he was starting a religion to earn tax-free income. He stated "How do you make money without being taxed? Start your own religion." Then he did, and people follow it now just like the other religions around the world, some of which I think started for the same reasons, to make easy money.

07-25-2002, 06:49 PM	#40
hal9000 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: just over your shoulder Posts: 146	bump

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