AJ113

Ah, well "faith based" has the same kind of meaning as awopbopaloobopawopbamboom tuttifrutti onroutti. OK?

mike_decock

faith:
Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

In other words, "faith based" = illogical belief based on emotion rather than reason.

-Mike...

Pyrrho

"Faith based", as you rightly observe, is oxymoronic. To believe something "by faith" is to believe without any real base or foundation. See:

http://ajburger.homestead.com/ethics.html

You state:

"What I'm hearing is 'the reason I believe things I know to be irrational is because I believe them.' That can't possibly be what is meant by "faith based" because that's just plain silly."

Your reasoning on this is grossly flawed. Most people are just plain silly. Haven't you noticed this? Don't you ever interact with people?

Why is it that so many people expect that others do not speak gibberish on a daily basis? Haven't you spoken with people in your life? Why would you ever be surprised if someone says something that is gibberish? What should surprise you is if someone were to say something that seemed to indicate some intelligence.

Biff the unclean

Why would you ever be surprised if someone says something that is gibberish? What should surprise you is if someone were to say something that seemed to indicate some intelligence.
The older I get the more naive I seem to become.
I see the term "faith based" used the first time and think 'what an idiot. Only a toddler thinks that things are because they want them to be.' But then the term is repeated multiple times. Not only repeated but proudly asserted. Which leads me to think that maybe I'm mistaken.
I live in the Silicon Valley area and many of the compu-geeks who live here talk like idiots but are really quite bright (or so I'm told). They like to make up their own language by reassigning new definitions to pretentious English words. I'm just happy that they have dropped speaking in Klingon.
So maybe that's what's happening here. "Faith based" is too idiotic a concept for anyone to boast about if the words have their normal English meanings. Maybe it has some meaning that is unknown to me, like a clubs secret handshake or password.
Maybe it's code or something…

Pyrrho

The portion in bold was originally posted by me.

People are proud of the fact that they believe the intellectual equivalent of believing in Santa Claus (though they would not describe it that way). Being proud and being reasonable are completely different concepts. People are proud of their foolishness. This is because they are too stupid to know that they are being foolish; if they realized they were being foolish, they would say and do other things instead.

What I am suggesting that you do is look at the evidence about people, and judge accordingly. The sooner you accept the fact that there is no intelligent life on this planet, the better off you will be. Then, you will not be surprised by what people do. It all then makes perfect sense.

Biff the unclean

Okay Rational, time for you to step in and save me. I think you should be given the benefit of the doubt and Pyrrho hasn't any doubt. Show us how "faith based" claims aren't idiotic. Don't make me look bad, kiddo.

AJ113

You are asking for a miracle of biblical proportions.....

Tarnaak

I'm impressed. Your finally getting it AJ

Tarnaak

With exception to me, I totally agree with you. There is no intellegent life on this planet.

Rational BAC

OK--I was wrong---

-- I thought that this thread had to end up very short because what I stated was undebateable. Turns out that atheists can debate any damned thing. Am I really surprised about that?

NO!

OK ---Try this-- Not everything on earth is rational or is supposed to be. Some things come from deep within everyone's heart (even the heart of atheists---and don't give me that crap about the heart just being a very efficient pump)

All you completely rational thinking atheists who are sure that science can explain everything, analyse to great depths everything that occurs on Earth and come up with scientific theories to explain everything all so perfectly rationally. ------

-----Explain me this---What is love? The first love you had in your life? How beautiful and wondrously new the feeling was? What is the very deep love for your wife or husband? What is the all- giving love for your children that you can sacrifice so much for their benefit? ---------- Without in any way counting up on a calculator the costs/benefit ratio?

Can you explain any of these things from a left brained very logical viewpoint? Can you analyse so succinctly and so scientifically acceptable any of these emotions? Can you put any of these under a microscope and determine cause and effect or real rational reasons for any of these very intangible feelings that all humans (including atheists) have?

I don't think you can. Some things in human life are irrational, not subject to left brained scrutiny under a microscope. But we all have these very "irrational" feelings don't we?----------even atheists.

My core belief system is irrational ---that I will admit openly. But so should you also openly admit that some of the biggest and MOST IMPORTANT parts of your lives are also irrational, unexplainable in any way at all.-------------except that "something deep within your heart (not the pump) made you feel certain things and act on these things that were completely irrational.

I stand by my core beliefs in the same way. Irrational --YES Unexplainable---YES. A delight to me in the same way that your first kiss was somehow and unexplainably delightful and the first time you fell in love blew you away----YES.

OK-----Your turn