Freethought & Rationalism Archive

xeren · 01-02-2003, 08:23 PM

Okay, I realize the subject of free will has been driven into the ground, but a) there are a lot of new folks around here, and b) i don't think determinism's effects on Christianity have been discussed in great depth.

1st, well, as the subject says, What are the implications of determinism on christianity? If determinism is true, does this render the punishment/reward system of Christianity ridiculous?

2nd, Are there any credulous Christian rebuttals to the idea of determinism?

So, any thoughts people?

-xeren

Starboy · 01-02-2003, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xeren
If determinism is true, does this render the punishment/reward system of Christianity ridiculous?
-xeren

xeren, are there any circumstances under which the punishment/reward system of Christianity is not ridiculous?

Starboy

xeren · 01-02-2003, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starboy
xeren, are there any circumstances under which the punishment/reward system of Christianity is not ridiculous?

Starboy

funny, but I'm trying to get serious answers, i don't want this to get moved to another forum, where NO ONE will actually answer it seriously

Starboy · 01-02-2003, 08:47 PM

I am serious. I can't think of any.

Starboy

Thomas Ash · 01-03-2003, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xeren
1st, well, as the subject says, What are the implications of determinism on christianity? If determinism is true, does this render the punishment/reward system of Christianity ridiculous?

It does if there's some concept of the punishment/reward being given because people deserve it (which there generally is), rather than it serving some instrumental purpose. But then again, I think this is true even if determinism isn't, as some justification is needed for why people deserve to have punishment inflicted on them, per se, rather than to deter crime and so on.

Shadownought · 01-03-2003, 04:34 AM

As it stands, God takes people to heaven who worship him, good or bad, and damns people to hell who don't worship him, good or bad. That's pretty absurd already. But if determinism is true, then it means God knows all along who he's going to throw in hell and who gets to sit in heaven with him, and he created certain people on earth for the sole purpose of bringing them to heaven, and other people for the sole purpose of throwing them in hell; and that makes the whole thing a bit more ridiculous, and also brings up the question of why he put us on Earth in the first place instead of just creating us in heaven or hell.

xeren · 01-03-2003, 10:12 AM

What I'm getting at is, if determinism is true, and all of our decisions are based on antecedent events(and genetic factors, which we also have no control over), then how could someone be rightfully punished for not accepting Christ as their savior if the events of their life simply haven't led them to believing in Him?

01-02-2003, 08:23 PM	#1
xeren Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Place Posts: 285	Implications of determinism on Christianity Okay, I realize the subject of free will has been driven into the ground, but a) there are a lot of new folks around here, and b) i don't think determinism's effects on Christianity have been discussed in great depth. 1st, well, as the subject says, What are the implications of determinism on christianity? If determinism is true, does this render the punishment/reward system of Christianity ridiculous? 2nd, Are there any credulous Christian rebuttals to the idea of determinism? So, any thoughts people? -xeren

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01-02-2003, 08:47 PM	#4
Starboy Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tallahassee, FL Reality Adventurer Posts: 5,276	I am serious. I can't think of any. Starboy

01-03-2003, 04:34 AM	#6
Shadownought Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: United States Posts: 209	As it stands, God takes people to heaven who worship him, good or bad, and damns people to hell who don't worship him, good or bad. That's pretty absurd already. But if determinism is true, then it means God knows all along who he's going to throw in hell and who gets to sit in heaven with him, and he created certain people on earth for the sole purpose of bringing them to heaven, and other people for the sole purpose of throwing them in hell; and that makes the whole thing a bit more ridiculous, and also brings up the question of why he put us on Earth in the first place instead of just creating us in heaven or hell.

01-03-2003, 10:12 AM	#7
xeren Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Place Posts: 285	What I'm getting at is, if determinism is true, and all of our decisions are based on antecedent events(and genetic factors, which we also have no control over), then how could someone be rightfully punished for not accepting Christ as their savior if the events of their life simply haven't led them to believing in Him?

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