Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Demigawd · 07-09-2003, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
As pointed out by Demigawd, Prometheus was never nailed to a cross, afaik was never considered Lord and savior, or a blood atonement.

Prometheus was a Titan that stole fire from the Olympian Gods and gave it to humanity. Zeus punished him by chaining him to a rock where a vulture ate his liver every day, and it regrew.

If the book you got that info from completely botches the mythological account of Prometheus, why should we accept any of the other claims?

Myth mutates over time, though. See how you remember a vulture and I an eagle? Prometheus can be considered a quasi-savior to humanity because he stole the fire to make up for his and his brother's shortsheeting of humanity. And he was punished for a long, long time for his deed.

I just want to see sources for these proposed judeo-christian-savior attributes.

Soul Invictus · 07-09-2003, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arken
I was given a fun book of random odds and ends and trivia called The Odd Index this afternoon. One of the sections gives brief details about these 16 and their similarities to Jesus. The compiler, Stephen P. Stignesi, admits that all of these come from The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, or Christianity Before Christ by Kersey Graves in 1875 who himself used Anacolypsis by Sir Godfrey Higgins as a source, so I'm not certain of the accuracy of these claims, and in fact I seriously doubt some, but I thought it might be a useful resource to reproduce the list here in case there is some validity.

Anacalypsis is a very informative book IMO. I own it and am currently reading it...As a matter of fact I've been currently reading it for several months. It's a long work. Two books and over 1000 pages!

Peter Kirby, ever considered putting this book on the recommended list?

-edited to remove voluminous list

Arken · 07-09-2003, 09:10 PM

I wish I had them for you. Aside from the compiler's lengthy (and pointless) introduction, that was all that was printed word for word.

Diotima · 07-10-2003, 12:34 AM

I can testify under oath about Prometheus

Nothing of what the books mentions about Prometheus is true.

He wasn't crucified. The Greeks didn't use the cross, not even as an ornamental geometric pattern...

I know all the Geometric Art by heart , once upon a time , in a previous life, I had to study this book and I didn't come across to a single cross... You will see swastikas but not crosses. Maybe a couple, but always circumscribed

According to Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound Prometheus, was tied on a rock on the mount Caucausus.

If you have time, you can check the book in the link I provided above, Corpus Vasorum Antiquorum. Go to 6th ce BC and to the Corinthian Pottery section, there you will find three-according to my memory- hydrias where Prometheus is depicted tied with a rope on a rock...

He has never risen from death. This was inconceivable and unacceptable for the Greeks. Only Asclepius, the doctor, if I remember well ( Doctor X, help!!! ) has performed this "miracle" once and put himself in real trouble...

We do not have an account of Prometheus death either... as for the earthquake ... this is Aeschylus' account...this is how he ends his play "Prometheus Bound" and we don't really know if Prometheus died in this earthquake...

Shall I make here an ironic comment that the author of the book must have confused Wagner's "Nibelungen Ring" with "Prometheus Bound"? Bahhhh

Prometheus wasn't known as our Lord and Saviour at least not to me who has read tones of Ancient Greek Literature...

I enjoy Zena... just on TV not in the form of books...

edited because I was bored to use my WP to compose my post...

Doctor X · 07-10-2003, 12:48 AM

I had just planned to write:

Quote:

I agree with everyone's corrections save Diotima's.

and leave it at that, but then she went and summoned my opinion.

Ascelapius rather blends as a "human" figure and a deity unto himself. The traditional human character is one of those "born by a randy god" types. He does, indeed, begin to raise the dead, Hades complains, and Zeus takes him out.

I am trying to recall anyother "rose from the dead," but none come to me. I have not read the full story of Apollonius of Tyre (?)--it might have a resurrection, I do not know.

I am glad Toto pointed out the Ishtar/Ianna story and linked in a "new" edition of Kramer's work--something to add to my ever growing "list."

--J.D.

Diotima · 07-10-2003, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doctor X
Ascelapius rather blends as a "human" figure and a deity unto himself.

I can see why modern doctors love to refer to him... a super heroe and doctor... hmmmm.

Quote:

I have not read the full story of Apollonius of Tyre (?)--it might have a resurrection, I do not know.
--J.D. [/B]

I do not remember and I can't check it from here... how did you remember this?

Doctor X · 07-10-2003, 01:09 AM

Superpowers for remembering trivia.

For example I know who the voice of King Kong was and what he won his Oscars for.

--J. "And for My Next Trick, I Will Make the Blind See!" D.

CX · 07-10-2003, 06:29 AM

Off the top of my head (and with as little effort as possible) there are at first blush quite a few mistakes

"Immaculate conception" has nothing to do with Jesus' birth. It's a common confusion, but IC refers to the Catholic doctrine that Mary was born without original sin.

Mithras was not crucified. We know very little about the cult because there are no written texts so everything comes from the depictions found in mithraeum. As best we can tell Mithras was carried back to heaven on a chariot.

Jesus was not born on December 25th and Xian doctrine doesn't say he was. Since Jesus' birthday was unknown even in antiquity. December 25th was chosen as the day to celebrate his being born because it roughly coincided with a number of different pagan festivals (including the birth of Mithras)

The Prometheus bit must be completely made up. None of it is correct.

I'm not inclined to investigate further but I suspect the vast majority of the remaining claims to be complete B.S. written by someone with a theological axe to grind.

lpetrich · 07-10-2003, 12:24 PM

It's Apollonius of Tyana, and though he was not crucified, he also rose up to heaven. Complete with a brief return to convince some diehard skeptic.

Also, I wonder where Kersey Graves had gotten his ideas. From someone who tended to read Xtian mythological motifs into every other mythology?

Krishna, for one, was not crucified. He either died of old age or was accidentally killed by someone called something like "Old Age", though he did rise up into heaven.

However, there are some common mythological motifs, like a hero having divine or royal parentage, someone trying to kill him when he was a baby, him going on a big journey, etc. Simply consider Lord Raglan's work.

braces_for_impact · 07-10-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

*raspy Darth Vader voice* The irony is strong with this one...

*muppet yoda voice* "sense much anger in him, anger and fear."

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

07-09-2003, 09:10 PM	#13
Arken Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: North Hollywood, CA Posts: 6,303	I wish I had them for you. Aside from the compiler's lengthy (and pointless) introduction, that was all that was printed word for word.

07-10-2003, 12:34 AM	#14
Diotima Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Europe Posts: 49	I can testify under oath about Prometheus Nothing of what the books mentions about Prometheus is true. He wasn't crucified. The Greeks didn't use the cross, not even as an ornamental geometric pattern... I know all the Geometric Art by heart , once upon a time , in a previous life, I had to study this book and I didn't come across to a single cross... You will see swastikas but not crosses. Maybe a couple, but always circumscribed According to Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound Prometheus, was tied on a rock on the mount Caucausus. If you have time, you can check the book in the link I provided above, Corpus Vasorum Antiquorum. Go to 6th ce BC and to the Corinthian Pottery section, there you will find three-according to my memory- hydrias where Prometheus is depicted tied with a rope on a rock... He has never risen from death. This was inconceivable and unacceptable for the Greeks. Only Asclepius, the doctor, if I remember well ( Doctor X, help!!! ) has performed this "miracle" once and put himself in real trouble... We do not have an account of Prometheus death either... as for the earthquake ... this is Aeschylus' account...this is how he ends his play "Prometheus Bound" and we don't really know if Prometheus died in this earthquake... Shall I make here an ironic comment that the author of the book must have confused Wagner's "Nibelungen Ring" with "Prometheus Bound"? Bahhhh Prometheus wasn't known as our Lord and Saviour at least not to me who has read tones of Ancient Greek Literature... I enjoy Zena... just on TV not in the form of books... edited because I was bored to use my WP to compose my post...

07-10-2003, 01:09 AM	#17
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Superpowers for remembering trivia. For example I know who the voice of King Kong was and what he won his Oscars for. --J. "And for My Next Trick, I Will Make the Blind See!" D.

07-10-2003, 06:29 AM	#18
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	Off the top of my head (and with as little effort as possible) there are at first blush quite a few mistakes "Immaculate conception" has nothing to do with Jesus' birth. It's a common confusion, but IC refers to the Catholic doctrine that Mary was born without original sin. Mithras was not crucified. We know very little about the cult because there are no written texts so everything comes from the depictions found in mithraeum. As best we can tell Mithras was carried back to heaven on a chariot. Jesus was not born on December 25th and Xian doctrine doesn't say he was. Since Jesus' birthday was unknown even in antiquity. December 25th was chosen as the day to celebrate his being born because it roughly coincided with a number of different pagan festivals (including the birth of Mithras) The Prometheus bit must be completely made up. None of it is correct. I'm not inclined to investigate further but I suspect the vast majority of the remaining claims to be complete B.S. written by someone with a theological axe to grind.

07-10-2003, 12:24 PM	#19
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	It's Apollonius of Tyana, and though he was not crucified, he also rose up to heaven. Complete with a brief return to convince some diehard skeptic. Also, I wonder where Kersey Graves had gotten his ideas. From someone who tended to read Xtian mythological motifs into every other mythology? Krishna, for one, was not crucified. He either died of old age or was accidentally killed by someone called something like "Old Age", though he did rise up into heaven. However, there are some common mythological motifs, like a hero having divine or royal parentage, someone trying to kill him when he was a baby, him going on a big journey, etc. Simply consider Lord Raglan's work.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.