nowhereman

Why aren't Christians more worried about non-Christians going to hell than they seem to be? If a family member or friend of a Christian isn't Christian, how can they still live their lives normally? Are they sorrowful for friends and family who died without becoming Christian? How can you still be "joyful" and have "peace" when Grandpa is suffering eternal torment?

Tom Sawyer

A lot of fundy christians are worried about that. They are willing to lie and commit many kinds of abuse to others because in the end, it's all for that person's own good.

Lots of liberal christians believe that God will judge a man based on his life, not on his beliefs, so whether or not they're christian isn't all that relevant and they're not worried about it.

Like most everything else, it depends on the person.

nowhereman

<<<They are willing to lie and commit many kinds of abuse to others because in the end, it's all for that person's own good. >>>


examples?

Amie

I thought that was a good post peteyh.

The concept of Hell has always been my biggest obstacle as a theist. I can not reconcile a loving, forgiving God who sends us to hell for all eternity based on some mistakes we made as imperfect beings using the free will that he gave us...

I do believe man will be judged on his life not belief.

seebs

I don't worry because:
1. I don't think it's as simple as believe/not-believe.
2. I don't know the state of anyone's soul.
3. Pressuring people does not persuade them.

If anyone *asks* me to tell them what I believe, or why, I'll do it. I'll engage in friendly open debates. I don't like to proselytize.

I figure this gives me a better chance of actually saving people's souls (assuming they're in danger), and is friendlier to boot.

nowhereman

Umm...I seem to remember that the gist of the whole thing is that believers go to heaven, nonbelievers go to hell. If that's not entirely correct please elaborate.

If someone says that he is not Christian, a reasonable conclusion would be that he isn't.

What's a better way to persuade people then?

Please tell me what you believe and why you believe it.

Infinity Lover

I actually think it's better if Christians aren't too worried about non-Christians going to hell... or if possible don't believe in hell at all.

To me it seems the concept of others going to hell, can cause one to alienate themselfs from others, or even dispise them... that way the notion of them facing eternal punishment becomes more justifiable or bearable... and in that way the notion of hell can negatively impact one's perspective on others... apathy or even hatred. In that sense I think it's an aspect of Christian doctrine that undermines the intended compassion for others.

nowhereman

As far as I understand it, the whole point of Christianity is to save people from hell. It's the "stick" part of the religion. What's the point of believing in Christ if you aren't going to hell anyways?

seebs

The Bible points out that Satan believes... but presumably, is not "saved". What, exactly, makes for salvation? This gets much more complicated when we start talking about what exactly it is that one must "believe". I think that anyone who genuinely seeks righteousness has a good chance, but... I don't know. Not my place.

The Bible also names some prophets as having gone to Heaven. Jewish prophets. So... it's not necessarily "faith in Christianity exactly as presented".

Sure - but that doesn't mean I can say he's going to hell. Maybe he is; maybe he isn't.

Well, for starters, being reasonably friendly helps.

Lessee.

1. Formal logic is a valid system for moving from true premises to true conclusions. I believe this because I'm stumped without it. Yes, I recognize that even that depends on formal logic; basically, pure faith.
2. The external world exists, and my senses are describing it with some kind of accuracy, subject to known limitations and at least some unknown limitations. I believe this pretty much for the same reason as the above, and because I think it is mostly futile to deny primary experience.
3. Mathematics is useful and probably correct. I was raised by mathematicians; I don't think I can imagine not believing this, so "why" is a hard question.
4. The scientific method is a fairly reliable way of extracting better working theories from experience of the world. It is not a mechanism for determining "truth"; only one for determining "a good working hypothesis." Based on observation, accumulation of data, and observed quality of results.
5. There is some kind of purpose or intelligence "behind" the universe that I experience, and which may interact with people. I believe this because it's more primary experience; I have a sense of interaction which is best described as "belief in God". Lots of "supplementary evidence", any given piece of which I happily admit could be coincidence or the human tendency to overreport patterns. However, on the whole, I feel that belief fits my experiences better than disbelief.
6. Life is worth living. It is fun to be here; I would rather exist than not. I can't say why I believe this; one answer would be "my brain happens not to be wired to be depressed". I am almost always happy - and even when I'm not happy, I am often joyful.
7. Other things which experience the world can, and should, be happy. If it is within my power to make it easier for them to be happy, I should do so. This one is purely emotional.
8. Many/most humans have formed belief systems which attempt to address the above issues; these seem to be based on a desire to identify some truth in the world. It seems to me that Christianity is probably the most accurate of them. I believe this based on tons of little things coming together.

Hmm. That's probably most of it; everything else probably follows from the above. If you want detailed theology, good luck; my theology consists of vast doubts and uncertainties, and lots of beliefs with little tags indicating that they are first-draft hypotheses, yet untested, and probably untestable.

seebs

What's the point in believing anything? I believe it because it seems to me to be true.

I don't think it's possible to believe something because you've been threatened; that's not evidence for a belief, that's evidence for someone wanting you to hold that belief; that's different.